Pakistan flood crisis raises fears of country's collapse
- Thread starter Gabbar
- Start date
Tayyab1796
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 1,080
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Since this is relevant to the topic i will share a conversation I had with a recently promoted Brig . (also a distant relative) of mine (who happens to have alot of years left in service and might rise to the rank of General one day) . We were discussing politics and he told me if SC orders us we will not hesitate . He told me that there is general perception and concern among senior ranks that this country is going to dogs . Army is very much concerned about the state of this country because its not in their interest to let this country be plundered and state made a mockery of (by not honouring and implementing SC judegements) . This recent flood has created more and more poor and homeless people (i-e ripe bredding grounds for would be terrorists) and the absolute failure of governance will not be tolerated by the army because Army is fed by the taxes and more poor people and more lost revenue (to corruption) is going to impede their own survival. Politicans are the only ones to blame for this holy mess.
Archie
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2010
- Messages
- 3,182
- Reaction score
- -11
- Country
- Location
Ofcourse Zardari can be kicked out of Power , and military could enter to form an interim govt , however i dont think any thing else will happen
Frankly according to me Pakistan was doing better under Mushi 's rule than under PPP rule
Frankly according to me Pakistan was doing better under Mushi 's rule than under PPP rule
Pakistan's leaders should heed the lesson of Bangladesh
With flooding and social unrest, conditions are eerily similar to 40 years ago when East and West Pakistan went to war
Major General Yahya Khan, president of Pakistan in 1969, was slow to respond to the devastation wreaked by Cyclone Bhola. Photograph: Bettmann/Corbis
We have been here before: a natural event on a catastrophic scale that devastates communities in a remote part of the world, and the indifference of a national government more concerned with parochial political survival than its responsibility to help its own people.
As Pakistan lurches from one disaster to another and survivors of the floods continue to search for loved ones, lessons from a similar moment 40 years ago need to be heeded. In 1970, Cyclone Bhola roared up and battered the densely populated coastline of the then eastern wing of Pakistan. The ferocious tidal surge that accompanied it drowned many as they slept in this low lying region. The winds completely ripped away entire villages and their rice crops. Cholera, typhoid and other diseases followed. The number of dead is still unknown, but some estimates place it at anything up to 500,000. Close to 4 million people were directly affected, making it one of the 20th century's worst natural disasters. Its magnitude was so great that the BBC journalist Paul Reynolds, in trying to make sense of the east Asian tsunami of 2005, invoked Cyclone Bhola.
The Bay of Bengal is particularly prone to tropical cyclones. But what made Cyclone Bhola all the more terrible was firstly the Pakistani government's denial of the cyclone's magnitude and the havoc it had wreaked, and secondly the sheer lack of pathos shown towards the victims and survivors even after the scale of it was realised. Relief operations in the affected areas were unhurried, which meant many more needlessly died. The effects of the cyclone were soon to engulf Pakistan's already fraught political climate with anger directed at the government of General Yahya Khan who had at the time just returned from a state visit to China.
In the tumultuous year leading up to Cyclone Bhola, mass protests and unrest had become a staple of everyday life across East and West Pakistan. Pakistanis, fed up with military dictatorships, were demanding democracy. The military government headed by Ayub Khan was by then in its 12th year of power. However, what people received instead from their leaders was further dictatorship. The country's powerful feudal elites simply exchanged the unpopular Ayub for General Yahya Khan, then chief of the armed forces. His first act in office was to declare martial law. Strikes and rebellions against the state continued until Yahya was forced to concede Pakistan's first general elections to take place the following year in 1970. He was confident the bureaucracy would be able manipulate the results satisfactorily.
And then the waters came. East Pakistan suffered extensive flooding throughout the summer of 1970. The elections were postponed until December. In November Bhola hit. The entire political atmosphere changed dramatically. With the disregard shown by the Yahya government towards the victims of the cyclone, not only did East Pakistani politicians demand the leader's resignation, but people openly called for what had hitherto been left unsaid: the breakup of East and West Pakistan. It was now only a matter of when.
Many survivors were unable to vote in the elections because they had lost everything they owned. It became clear to Yahya and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, West Pakistan's then most prominent politician and father-in-law of the current president Asif Ali Zardari, that what was inevitable was their ousting from power and the instalment of politicians from East Pakistan.
"East Pakistan is no problem," Bhutto reportedly replied to Yahya when asked for a solution. "We will have to kill some 20,000 people there and all will be well" And indeed after failing at the polls, that is precisely what was attempted in the nine month secessionist war between East Pakistani guerrillas and the West Pakistani army. In actuality, many more died than envisioned. East Pakistan managed to break away, renaming itself Bangladesh and Zulfikar was able to become the president of Pakistan as he had so desired.
Few would disagree that the mishandling of the cyclone relief operation precipitated the breakup of Pakistan in 1971, although secession was not solely due to the devastation of Cyclone Bhola. With the flooding, loss and suffering we are currently witnessing in the subcontinent, we must keep in mind that Pakistan is as volatile and precarious now as it was 40 years ago.
The remaining four states within the conglomeration Sindh, Baluchistan, Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (North-West Frontier Province) harbour longstanding and violent insurgency movements against the central government. Baluchis for example have been battling against the Pakistani army since they were forcibly incorporated into the state in 1947. Rather than ethnic diversity being at the root of this discontentment as some commentators suggest, it is the years of oppression, forced detentions, extra-judicial killings, exploitation and militarisation in these regions that is at the root of their resentment. This is no different to East Pakistan in 1970.
No region in Pakistan remains untouched by the flooding today. Coupled with a stagnating economy, mass unemployment, a bloody civil war against Islamist jihadis and the general hardships of every day life, as soon as the waters recede the question will return: will Pakistan break up again?
Pakistan's leaders should heed the lesson of Bangladesh | Delwar Hussain | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
-----------------
Hoping the best for Pakistan in this time of hardship
With flooding and social unrest, conditions are eerily similar to 40 years ago when East and West Pakistan went to war
Major General Yahya Khan, president of Pakistan in 1969, was slow to respond to the devastation wreaked by Cyclone Bhola. Photograph: Bettmann/Corbis
We have been here before: a natural event on a catastrophic scale that devastates communities in a remote part of the world, and the indifference of a national government more concerned with parochial political survival than its responsibility to help its own people.
As Pakistan lurches from one disaster to another and survivors of the floods continue to search for loved ones, lessons from a similar moment 40 years ago need to be heeded. In 1970, Cyclone Bhola roared up and battered the densely populated coastline of the then eastern wing of Pakistan. The ferocious tidal surge that accompanied it drowned many as they slept in this low lying region. The winds completely ripped away entire villages and their rice crops. Cholera, typhoid and other diseases followed. The number of dead is still unknown, but some estimates place it at anything up to 500,000. Close to 4 million people were directly affected, making it one of the 20th century's worst natural disasters. Its magnitude was so great that the BBC journalist Paul Reynolds, in trying to make sense of the east Asian tsunami of 2005, invoked Cyclone Bhola.
The Bay of Bengal is particularly prone to tropical cyclones. But what made Cyclone Bhola all the more terrible was firstly the Pakistani government's denial of the cyclone's magnitude and the havoc it had wreaked, and secondly the sheer lack of pathos shown towards the victims and survivors even after the scale of it was realised. Relief operations in the affected areas were unhurried, which meant many more needlessly died. The effects of the cyclone were soon to engulf Pakistan's already fraught political climate with anger directed at the government of General Yahya Khan who had at the time just returned from a state visit to China.
In the tumultuous year leading up to Cyclone Bhola, mass protests and unrest had become a staple of everyday life across East and West Pakistan. Pakistanis, fed up with military dictatorships, were demanding democracy. The military government headed by Ayub Khan was by then in its 12th year of power. However, what people received instead from their leaders was further dictatorship. The country's powerful feudal elites simply exchanged the unpopular Ayub for General Yahya Khan, then chief of the armed forces. His first act in office was to declare martial law. Strikes and rebellions against the state continued until Yahya was forced to concede Pakistan's first general elections to take place the following year in 1970. He was confident the bureaucracy would be able manipulate the results satisfactorily.
And then the waters came. East Pakistan suffered extensive flooding throughout the summer of 1970. The elections were postponed until December. In November Bhola hit. The entire political atmosphere changed dramatically. With the disregard shown by the Yahya government towards the victims of the cyclone, not only did East Pakistani politicians demand the leader's resignation, but people openly called for what had hitherto been left unsaid: the breakup of East and West Pakistan. It was now only a matter of when.
Many survivors were unable to vote in the elections because they had lost everything they owned. It became clear to Yahya and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, West Pakistan's then most prominent politician and father-in-law of the current president Asif Ali Zardari, that what was inevitable was their ousting from power and the instalment of politicians from East Pakistan.
"East Pakistan is no problem," Bhutto reportedly replied to Yahya when asked for a solution. "We will have to kill some 20,000 people there and all will be well" And indeed after failing at the polls, that is precisely what was attempted in the nine month secessionist war between East Pakistani guerrillas and the West Pakistani army. In actuality, many more died than envisioned. East Pakistan managed to break away, renaming itself Bangladesh and Zulfikar was able to become the president of Pakistan as he had so desired.
Few would disagree that the mishandling of the cyclone relief operation precipitated the breakup of Pakistan in 1971, although secession was not solely due to the devastation of Cyclone Bhola. With the flooding, loss and suffering we are currently witnessing in the subcontinent, we must keep in mind that Pakistan is as volatile and precarious now as it was 40 years ago.
The remaining four states within the conglomeration Sindh, Baluchistan, Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (North-West Frontier Province) harbour longstanding and violent insurgency movements against the central government. Baluchis for example have been battling against the Pakistani army since they were forcibly incorporated into the state in 1947. Rather than ethnic diversity being at the root of this discontentment as some commentators suggest, it is the years of oppression, forced detentions, extra-judicial killings, exploitation and militarisation in these regions that is at the root of their resentment. This is no different to East Pakistan in 1970.
No region in Pakistan remains untouched by the flooding today. Coupled with a stagnating economy, mass unemployment, a bloody civil war against Islamist jihadis and the general hardships of every day life, as soon as the waters recede the question will return: will Pakistan break up again?
Pakistan's leaders should heed the lesson of Bangladesh | Delwar Hussain | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
-----------------
Hoping the best for Pakistan in this time of hardship
Areesh
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 45,157
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
-----------------
Hoping the best for Pakistan in this time of hardship
Thanks but let me tell you a small secret. Hey this is 2010 not 1971. Just to remind you of it.
mehru
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,645
- Reaction score
- 0
No doubt that injustice was done to Bangladesh but the cause of breakup was different.
There is a danger of civil unrest but as all provinces were hit, it is unlikely to give rise to separatist movements.
The remaining four states are fighting against central Govt? The writer seems to be on drugs.
Problem is in two provinces. KP problem is taliban who want their own version of Govt. They are not trying to break KP form Pak nor they have the power to do so.
Baluchistan didn't forcibly join. It is well-known fact that the partition of India was made on the basis of religious demographics that led to the creation of Pakistan. The people of Balochistan, overwhelmingly voted to join Pakistan in a referendum that was held on June 30, 1947. The Indian Independence Act, 1947 allowed the independent states to join either India or Pakistan. The Khan of Kalat acceded to Pakistan on March 27, 1948 as a result of the free will of the Muslims of the province.
Last edited:
mehru
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,645
- Reaction score
- 0
Lolzzz Another typical dooms day theory for the collapse of Pakistan by some low live "intellectuals".
These guys don't have something better to do in their lives.
Looks like Pak floods have given an idea to everyone to write another doomsday prophecy on us. Rather than raising issue of humanitarian crises, most articles all around the world are emphasizing only on this fact that "this is the end of Pakistan".What can you say to writers like these other than thanks for telling us.
Solomon2
BANNED
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2008
- Messages
- 19,475
- Reaction score
- -37
- Country
- Location
"There is a perception in the army that you need good governance to get out of the economic crisis and there is no good governance"
The question isn't whether the army will take over now, but whether the army will mount a coup when the crisis is over and the Pakistani economy has nowhere else to go but up. Imo, government, democratic or not, will be very popular at that point.
But I don't see a political collapse. Pakistanis aren't taught that they are a great country because they build infrastructure to control floods, minimize flood casualties, or have an honest government, are they?
The question isn't whether the army will take over now, but whether the army will mount a coup when the crisis is over and the Pakistani economy has nowhere else to go but up. Imo, government, democratic or not, will be very popular at that point.
But I don't see a political collapse. Pakistanis aren't taught that they are a great country because they build infrastructure to control floods, minimize flood casualties, or have an honest government, are they?
It is not very clear in the article what the collapse of state (Pakistan) refers to. I could of interpret it in various ways:
[1] Collapse of Govt. by Army coup - has happened in the past on multiple occassions
[2] Civil War resulting in break up - happened once in 1971
[3] Direct Foreign Intervention/Administration resulting in break up
[4] A combination of above
Are there are any other interpretations of the word 'collapse'?
[1] Collapse of Govt. by Army coup - has happened in the past on multiple occassions
[2] Civil War resulting in break up - happened once in 1971
[3] Direct Foreign Intervention/Administration resulting in break up
[4] A combination of above
Are there are any other interpretations of the word 'collapse'?
Thanks but let me tell you a small secret. Hey this is 2010 not 1971. Just to remind you of it.
And let ME tell YOU a small secret, I didn't write the article, blame him if you do not like what he is saying, not me.
I merely came across it on the website (guardian.co.uk) and thought I might post it since it was relevant. Sorry if it offended any of my Pakistani brothers and sisters, I didn't mean to.
American Pakistani
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 15,374
- Reaction score
- 10
- Country
- Location
Sorry for off topic but this is for those ****heads who thinks Balochistan was forcefully annexed to Pakistan.
Last edited by a moderator:
waraich66
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2008
- Messages
- 4,641
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
These stupid dont know that their servival is due to servival of Pakistan .They should read the history Nawab of Hydrabad who decided to remain independent but what happened to him and his state.
GOP is giving to all Nawab of states( Kalat,Bhawal Pur ,Swat etc) 7 to 16 Lac yearly from last sixty years, still they are not happy ? Shame on them.
American Pakistani
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 15,374
- Reaction score
- 10
- Country
- Location
Actually I posted that video for some stupids who are not Pakistanis and dont know about Pakistan internal matters but are still barking on our internal matters.
As for Balochistan, they are very patriotic Pakistanis like other ethnics of Pakistan, only few are foriegn funded terrorists who want to create chaos.
BTW sorry for offtopic & i will write no more on this. Stupids can think whatever they want to think.
Similar threads
- Article
