Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

[Mirzali Khan]

Comical how a handful of atheists and ill bred desis gather under threads like this to bash Islam and find strength in each other’s idiocy. Meanwhile in the real world millions gather to bury a Maulana they all use as an insult. And in reply to this we will hear “this is why Pakistan is backwards, why its a failure”. A nation 73 years old that has been called failing by these people since its inception. I have a suggestion. Go to Reddit and join Ex muslims. You will find many more people of the same murtad jaahil thought than you will here.

LMFAOOOOOO

As someone in amreeka, ex-mooses are just people who just wanna be white

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Good point.
Urban young Pakistanis are marrying across ethnic boundaries.
My own extended family has at least five Punjabi and three Sindhi, one Baluchi and one Pashtun marriages. It is more common amongst armed forces personnel ( remember Alpha Bravo Charlie ).

Same here, in amreeka Pakistanis only look if you are Pakistani or not, they don't care about ethnicity.

 

[m52k85]

We are Pakistan's First ....

It is necessary now as never before to emphasize our identity.

We are Pakistanis, dwellers of Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan, Punjab and Azad Kashmir. We are defined by a common cultural thread of Saraiki linking our provinces and our peoples.
Ours is an ancient culture going back to the dawn of civilization established in the Indus River Valley 5400 years ago. We have evolved over the centuries absorbing other cultures and religions.

Over the last 50 years our cultural and national identity has been transformed and redefined.
We are redefining our cultural traditions to as they were centuries back with deep roots to Central Asia and the Middle East. In dress, language, and cuisine we are now different than we were 50 years back. Few nations in the world have culturally transformed so rapidly.

To further redefine it is necessary to emphasize who we are NOT...
Pakistanis are Not :

1. "Indian" Muslims - We are not part of "India", and yes a majority of our
population is Muslim, but religion is not the only defining feature of our national
identity.
We have no connection with the Muslim population of "India" as defined by its
territory today.

2. "West" Pakistanis - There is no "East" or "West" Pakistan but simply Pakistan.


3. "South" Asians- Pakistanis are Asians and our population similarity is with West or Central
Asia.

What do PDF members think?

Are the other South Asian populations at all relevant to us?

No no please, no nationalism. Be a patriot not a nationalist. Next we will have Baloch nationalists, Sindhi nationalists and will burn ourselves to the ground. Hitler was a nationalist, one who worships his 'race'. And 'race' is a very subjective concept despite some very objective methods from genetics used to study it.

Our Prophet (PBUH) recognised this and told us about this in the an incident that happened in Madina munawara, I will relate it loosely, two sahabas were having an argument, and then each was joined and supported by their racial group (I think it was Awz vs Khazraj or Muhajiroon vs Ansar), when the Prophet came to know about this he was very upset and said that will you continue to espouse these ideas from 'jahiliyyah' (jihalat) once I have brought Islam.

So to conclude, not only our main identity is Islam but that identity also tells us not to fall into the trap of racial identities.

P.S. Secular nationalists, next time you go into battle, let it be with nara-e-Pakistan, we will continue to go in with nara-e-takbir.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

No no please, no nationalism. Be a patriot not a nationalist. Next we will have Baloch nationalists, Sindhi nationalists and will burn ourselves to the ground. Hitler was a nationalist, one who worships his 'race'. And 'race' is a very subjective concept despite some very objective methods from genetics used to study it.

Our Prophet (PBUH) recognised this and told us about this in the an incident that happened in Madina munawara, I will relate it loosely, two sahabas were having an argument, and then each was joined and supported by their racial group (I think it was Awz vs Khazraj or Muhajiroon vs Ansar), when the Prophet came to know about this he was very upset and said that will you continue to espouse these ideas from 'jahiliyyah' (jihalat) once I have brought Islam.

So to conclude, not only our main identity is Islam but that identity also tells us not to fall into the trap of racial identities.

Which is why we need to be PAKISTANI NATIONALISTS.

Paragraphs 2 and 3 of your post need to be explained to the gulfi Arabs not to Pakistanis.

If religion has nothing to do with ur identity and ideology then whats ur beef with indians?? Go back to being a hindu and ull live in peace together like ur ancestors did thousands of years ago.

We are not indians. Modern day Pakistanis are racially and ethnically different to modern day indians.

 

[m52k85]

Which is why we need to be PAKISTANI NATIONALISTS.

Paragraphs 2 and 3 of your post need to be explained to the gulfi Arabs not to Pakistanis.

sighh

 

[KurtisBrian]

how did Nationalism work out for Argentina, Japan, Germany, Drumph (somebody here said a hollow vessel makes the most noise...his real German name is Drum hehe) and his version of the US, and so many others.... ?

 

[Baibars_1260]

Well, then we almost stand in the same group, I take my whiskey neat, lol

Try Gin and Lime Juice Cordial with
Angastura Bitters.

I wasn't asking for space for me per say, but space for my Bengali brothers and sisters. Besides the emotional feelings, I have had Bengali girlfriend, and very close Bengali friends. The closest among whom actually supports the Awami League. I do not see them nowadays, you know life moves on and you move along with it.

Bengali brothers and sisters?
You are using the wrong term again. I assume you are referring to our honored guests from the great nation of Bangladesh. Our honored guests have their space on a separate forum, right here ( BDF) which I would advise you to visit.
I have very close Bengali friends too, who are like brothers and sisters to me, except that they are all from West Bengal in India, and are secular Marxists. Glad to know you have a Bangladeshi girl friend., My spouse is from West Bengal too.

We have had a turbulent history, so animosity will take time to go away, but, once you scratch the surface, there is plenty of love and respect.

I was a bit disappointed. Considering how much Bangladeshis are proud of their language and culture I had assumed that my cursory familiarity with the Bengali language, and fondness for Bengali music, theater and movies would go down well with them. But I got the shock of my life.

And, maybe it could be the case you came across the ones who are negative, and I came across the ones who were willing to show me the positives, sometimes who we meet by virtue of chance can also effect how we feel about things.

All I can say is that my experience has been different. But maybe I was
too short sighted to see the difference between West Bengali and Bangladeshi culture.

I'm just saying, there is also positives, and from your experience I recognise there is also lot of negativity. But surely, we us a nation, can display a big heart.

Learning to speak a little Bengali, knowing and enjoying Bengali music, and culture... Well that's as big as my heart gets.. Now do suggest what else I must do...

Remember, recently when modi took action against Kashmiris, one of the largest demonstrations in the world was in Bangladesh, all I am asking is just don't close the door. They are a decent lot. I have my bad experiences also, but bro, they are good, and they honestly do care about us. Just taking this chance to share the positive side.

So I need to meet the ones who speak up ..,
Speak up for Kashmir; speak up when India bombed us; speak up when our women and children are shredded with shrapnel from shelling on the LOC ..,

Just as I respect the Bengali language and Bengali culture I would like some reciprocity towards my language and culture too. My West Bengali friends are very interested in my language Urdu and my culture. They don't give me sermons on the Ummah. They are secular Marxists.

how did Nationalism work out for Argentina, Japan, Germany, Drumph (somebody here said a hollow vessel makes the most noise...his real German name is Drum hehe) and his version of the US, and so many others.... ?

Nationalism worked very well for the winning side in the Civil War in Pakistan. The winners are still celebrating their nationalism right here on this forum, while advising "Ummah Brotherhood " for us.

 

[lafete]

An advance culture will always take advantage of a primitive culture - Just look at the red Indians.


One might expect the Desi community living in the west to be problem free, especially those who were born in the west and are considered to be second or third generation Desi. Firstly, as the saying goes, “roots – you cut them down and they grow right back, runaway and they follow you, where ever you are; they find you”. It is not really possible to get rid of one’s culture. A much larger problem arises due to the cultural shock that immigrants and their children receive. Cut off from their own culture and language, these children look at the leaders of the media and society and consequently do a comparison.

In most cases, the conclusion that is made is that the reason why their immigrant parents have not become leaders is because of their differences. This is especially true of low income Desi families in the west. The ghettos or the slums are considered incubators, which produce genuine citizens. The parents who arrive in these incubators might not be full products, but by the time they graduate from these incubators, their children will have become real citizens – stripped of their older language, customs and culture. The biggest and best guarantee here is that these children will make good followers and will follow the rules of the system to climb the ladder. They can never invent ways which can change the society or culture or alter the system in any way.

This all can be easily seen if one looks at the millions of Desi people living in the west. While quite a few have achieved financial success, they have not been able to produce any real scientists, artists or genuine thinkers, even though they have access to the best education and research facilities.

This is unfortunate because these folks had the best hope, living in a free society with many resources at their disposal and using the Americans as an example who come up with a new culture. Had they succeeded in creating a better Desi culture, it could have been used in the Desi lands to resolve the problems there.

A “blueblood” landowner, who also happened to be in politics in the United States, asked an Indian CEO of a large corporation that if he was satisfied with the “bakshish” he was being given in the US. The message was clear that in the end, the Indian was only shining someone else’s shop. This becomes further evident when one looks at the world. It was the Desi blood and sweat of the brow which built the Middle East. Whether it is the IT industry or the healthcare industry in the west, you will find large scale Desi contributions. How much has the Desi expat community contributed to the Middle Eastern or western GDP? When you compare these numbers with the GDP of Desi countries you will find large inequalities. The Middle East and the West have the mosques and the mandars, the only thing they do not have is a culture which lacks courage.

An HR recruiter working in a technology firm disclosed the technique he used to vet the Desi applicants applying for critical positions. After asking the technical questions, he would take out a clean sheet of paper and ask the applicant to produce the greatest thing he/she can – “Do anything you want with the paper but it has to be your greatest creation”. With no problem to solve, no past paper/exam to look at, no one to tell what to do, no example to look at – this almost always created a crisis within the applicant and a meltdown. The problem is that this is an exercise of the soul and not the mind, if done properly. While focusing on the applicants eyes, face, body and observing him do the work, one has the opportunity to take a peek inside the applicants soul. This is when the closet opens and the skeletons start coming out, usually starting with the applicant loosening his tie or a streak of sweat running down the forehead.

 

[Baibars_1260]

P.S. Secular nationalists, next time you go into battle, let it be with nara-e-Pakistan, we will continue to go in with nara-e-takbir.

There is a secular slogan: "Pakistan Paenda-bad ! "
Our National Anthem is secular too. Only the last line has a reference to the pre-Islamic Persian word for the Creator.
" Saya e Khuda e Zul Jalal "

For the battle, the war cry can be: "Pakistan zindabad "

We have secular martial songs too:

1. "Aye Putr Hattan di nai vikdey....

2. "Jugni diyan uchiyan shana ne "

 

[Apprentice]

Actually, it is not so much non-Pakistani mistreatment of Pakistan but
once-"Pakistani Muslim" mistreatment of Pakistan. We got kicked hard. Something our chest thumping Bangladeshi "Muslim" guests and their Hindu masters holding the leash on their dog collars keep reminding us on this very forum time and time again.

Nationalism is only the privilege of Bangladeshis, because to them their language and culture is supreme, and we must bury our language and culture and grovel before them cowering under the whip of "Islamic Unity". You only need to go to the "Chill Bangladesh" thread and see what our so called "brethren in faith" really think of Islamic Unity. One statement:
"Brother, Islamic Unity is fine and I am all for it, but when it comes to a choice, it is my nation first " There are other statements with expletives against the founding fathers of Pakistan, Punjabis, Baluchis, Sindhis, and people of KPK best not repeated here.

That is what our "once-Pakistani Muslim" brethren in faith are saying right here, on this very forum. They have been screaming these in our ears for 70 years. Then they turn around and talk Islamic brotherhood in the name of the Ummah. We have been so deafened by the mantra of "Islamic brotherhood ", that we don't listen, not even to the abuse..

The Turks, Iranians, Arabs, North Africans, Indonesians all have national identities. Are those clones of India.
Why shouldn't Pakistan have its national identity

You should also add mistreatment by Indian Muslims

 

[Apprentice]

There is a secular slogan: "Pakistan Paenda-bad ! "
Our National Anthem is secular too. Only the last line has a reference to the pre-Islamic Persian word for the Creator.
" Saya e Khuda e Zul Jalal "

For the battle, the war cry can be: "Pakistan zindabad "

We have secular martial songs too:

1. "Aye Putr Hattan di nai vikdey....

2. "Jugni diyan uchiyan shana ne "

I want our soldiers to die as shaheed. If they die for Islam then Allah will grant them the rewards of shahadat in next life. The state can't provide those rewards to our soldiers in the next eternal life. That is why Islamic motives for Army must be retained at all costs. No one is saying fight for Ummah. Just fight for Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

We are Pakistan's First ....

It is necessary now as never before to emphasize our identity.

We are Pakistanis, dwellers of Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan, Punjab and Azad Kashmir. We are defined by a common cultural thread of Saraiki linking our provinces and our peoples.
Ours is an ancient culture going back to the dawn of civilization established in the Indus River Valley 5400 years ago. We have evolved over the centuries absorbing other cultures and religions.

Over the last 50 years our cultural and national identity has been transformed and redefined.
We are redefining our cultural traditions to as they were centuries back with deep roots to Central Asia and the Middle East. In dress, language, and cuisine we are now different than we were 50 years back. Few nations in the world have culturally transformed so rapidly.

To further redefine it is necessary to emphasize who we are NOT...
Pakistanis are Not :

1. "Indian" Muslims - We are not part of "India", and yes a majority of our
population is Muslim, but religion is not the only defining feature of our national
identity.
We have no connection with the Muslim population of "India" as defined by its
territory today.

2. "West" Pakistanis - There is no "East" or "West" Pakistan but simply Pakistan.


3. "South" Asians- Pakistanis are Asians and our population similarity is with West or Central
Asia.

What do PDF members think?

Are the other South Asian populations at all relevant to us?

You are talking about labels. Changing labels will take you nowhere if your foundations are not built..
Pakistani nationalism will not be strong if sub nationalism remains strong. Until people are ready to tolerate each others presence. .Until people of different cultures bradri and tribalism are ready to marry among each other despite pressures.. This will require great deal of urbanization and it will take time.
You are talking about 'Not being called Indian'.. I have seen so many of my pashtun brothers indirectly calling Punjabi brothers Indian. When asked why they call them indian they say their forefathers were hindu..i ask dude your forefathers were also hindu or Buddhist at some point in time and they are like a deer in the headlights .A total revamp is required with the history curriculum to filter out such ignorance..

 

[peagle]

Try Gin and Lime Juice Cordial with

sacrilege, I don't mix anything when it comes to my drinks, neat and in original form all the way, every time.

Glad to know you have a Bangladeshi girl friend

The optimum word I used was "had", 20 years ago in fact, so it has been a long time, she actually used to correct my Urdu lol, and tell me the meaning of words when listening to qawali.

Just as I respect the Bengali language and Bengali culture I would like some reciprocity towards my language and culture too. My West Bengali friends are very interested in my language Urdu and my culture. They don't give me sermons on the Ummah. They are secular Marxists.

These days I have no Bengali friends in my circle, all previous experience, I am surrounded Indians nowadays lol, one west Bengali couple among them, with both I am very close, closet RSS supporters, wont openly admit it, but it is so obvious, not Marxist I'm afraid, her father is in fact ex-army and a RSS counsellor in west Bengal.
she keeps telling me to speak Hindi, and I keep telling her over my dead body, and on it goes lol

Nationalism worked very well for the winning side in the Civil War in Pakistan. The winners are still celebrating their nationalism right here on this forum, while advising "Ummah Brotherhood " for us.

Indeed,
there's one too many Ummah brotherhood lot among Pakistanis too, my family is full of them. don't get me wrong, I feel it too, the Ummah thing, but not at the cost of my thing, Pakistan.

 

[peagle]

Which is why we need to be PAKISTANI NATIONALISTS.

Paragraphs 2 and 3 of your post need to be explained to the gulfi Arabs not to Pakistanis.





We are not indians. Modern day Pakistanis are racially and ethnically different to modern day indians.

We are a perfect mix, and distinctly different from all,
with our own formulation.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We are a perfect mix, and distinctly different from all,
with our own formulation.

View attachment 707963

So even by the evidence you have presented, it clearly shows that Pakistanis are racially different to indians and bengalis. So hence we can't all be banded together as "south asians" or "desis".