Pakistan finalized Z-10ME Helicopters deal with China : Journalist Sumaira Khan

[iLION12345_1]

That essentially means 40-50 helicopters. We are still interested in Atak II, what role would it play then?

I suspect it'd be for the high-altitude requirement (albeit as a heavier platform than the originally sought T129).

The PAA's attack helicopter fleet requirement was around 60 in the late 1980s. I don't know if it has gone up since then, but there's a case for it as a quick response asset to Cold Start-type maneuvers. OTOH, armed drones such as Shahpar-2 and TB2 may have offset the capability gap, so we're back to around 60.

When PAA purchases the Z-10ME, the chances for their procurement of ATAK-II go down significantly because of logistical reasons. However it’s been rumored for a while that China is working on an equivalent heavy gunship as well, which would make sense considering PLAs requirements. That might become the front runner in PAs future heavy gunship program (if they have one). However ATAK-II remains an option.

If the PA had ended up with T129B, the ATAK-II would have been the ideal option because of the shared weapons and parts.

 

[Yasser76]

My guess is our heavy investment in Turkish and Chinese drones may actually take some of the pressure off a attack chopper purchase now. Akinci can carry 1,400kg of weapons over the battlefield which I think maybe more then the Z-10. If we have enough Bayrakters and Akincis in the next few years and now that Western front in quieting down, maybe we can wait for ATAK II?

 

[python-000]

full image of upgraded Z-10ME...

Hope Pakistan Get them soon...

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

When PAA purchases the Z-10ME, the chances for their procurement of ATAK-II go down significantly because of logistical reasons. However it’s been rumored for a while that China is working on an equivalent heavy gunship as well, which would make sense considering PLAs requirements. That might become the front runner in PAs future heavy gunship program (if they have one). However ATAK-II remains an option.

If the PA had ended up with T129B, the ATAK-II would have been the ideal option because of the shared weapons and parts.

It'd depend more on the Z-10ME's high-altitude ops capability. The ideal scenario is that you have one platform type for use across all environments. That way, you only worry about one logistics chain and build numbers of that system.

 

[Bin Laden]

It'd depend more on the Z-10ME's high-altitude ops capability. The ideal scenario is that you have one platform type for use across all environments. That way, you only worry about one logistics chain and build numbers of that system.

What about the mi35s in PA's fleets have their performance been satisfactory or underwhelming since PA never ordered more.
I figure mi35s/z10mes can be good HI-LOW combo

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What about the mi35s in PA's fleets have their performance been satisfactory or underwhelming since PA never ordered more.
I figure mi35s/z10mes can be good HI-LOW combo

The PAA knew about the Mi-35's performance before it ordered them. It wanted that type of helicopter. It hasn't ordered additional units because of Russia's situation -- i.e., the risk of CAATSA sanctions.

 

[iLION12345_1]

It'd depend more on the Z-10ME's high-altitude ops capability. The ideal scenario is that you have one platform type for use across all environments. That way, you only worry about one logistics chain and build numbers of that system.

China has employed Z-10Ks at Ladakh, those are downgraded Z-10Ms lacking several things like extra armor panels and sub-systems, and have weaker engines as well. AFAIK they have worse P/W ratio than Z-10ME.
China did however upgrade its Z-10Ks with some parts of the Z-10M later, so I’m unsure what exact model was deployed in Ladakh, and we don’t know how it performed, we just know it was used there, rather extensively too.

That being said, on paper it’s High-altitude capabilities look about right for its class, they’re not exceptional, which is something the Z-10MEs more powerful engines might remedy.

What about the mi35s in PA's fleets have their performance been satisfactory or underwhelming since PA never ordered more.
I figure mi35s/z10mes can be good HI-LOW combo

Mi-35s are not in the same class as Z-10ME, T-129B or AH-1F/S. They are mode adept at strafing runs than at providing long term coverage over battlefields with static hovering capabilities. They also cannot carry as much and the same type of ordinance as Z-10ME, nor is Russia a secure origin for weaponry at the moment. All in all. Not an ideal choice for PA to induct in large numbers.

Performance however has been satisfactory AFAIK. PA knew what it was getting when it bought them. They are very good helicopters for their intended role.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

China has employed Z-10Ks at Ladakh, those are downgraded Z-10Ms lacking several things like extra armor panels and sub-systems, and have weaker engines as well. AFAIK they have worse P/W ratio than Z-10ME.
China did however upgrade its Z-10Ks with some parts of the Z-10M later, so I’m unsure what exact model was deployed in Ladakh, and we don’t know how it performed, we just know it was used there, rather extensively too.

That being said, on paper it’s High-altitude capabilities look about right for its class, they’re not exceptional, which is something the Z-10MEs more powerful engines might remedy.


Mi-35s are not in the same class as Z-10ME, T-129B or AH-1F/S. They are mode adept at strafing runs than at providing long term coverage over battlefields with static hovering capabilities. They also cannot carry as much and the same type of ordinance as Z-10ME, nor is Russia a secure origin for weaponry at the moment. All in all. Not an ideal choice for PA to induct in large numbers.

Performance however has been satisfactory AFAIK. PA knew what it was getting when it bought them. They are very good helicopters for their intended role.

One other interesting thing about the mast-mounted mmW radar photo is that it suggests that the PAA would use the Z-10ME in an integrated attack/recce role. Basically, there'd be a 'situational awareness' Z-10ME operating alongside units configured for 'attack.' China was also marketing a SPEAR-type cruise missile with the Z-10ME. I think Pakistan could pursue that to give the PAA its own SOW capability.

60 Z-10MEs + large numbers of Shahpar-IIs is a seriously stacked CAS capability.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Don't worry Indians are famous for doing crazy acts... recently AH64 made emergency landing, crew forget to remove the exhaust cover and two " alert " pilots didn't notice in their final inspection before takeoff.

View attachment 807715

A blatant lie btw. You can see the crew walking around putting ON the covers (which are carried inside storage compartments of the airframe in case you land away from your support). They made a precautionary landing which happens all the time with helicopters then flew away a few hours later


(An F35 from the QE carrier crashed recently because the engine intake cover wasn’t removed for take off though)

Here’s a photo a few moments later with the left side engine exhaust cover installed, are you saying they both were fitted for take off?

Funny how you can start an engine with the covers on, fly for a time and the exhaust covers look pristine

 

[Signalian]

,.,.,.
https://twitter.com/ForumStrategic
@ForumStrategic

Update on Z-10ME For the first time a Z-10 was seen carrying a mast-mounted radar as shown on this updated Z-10ME. Visible upgraded features are as follows
~ MAWS.
~ Upgraded IFF.
~ DIRCM.

View attachment 828545

,.,.,.,,.,.

Is this MMW Radar the same one on WZ-19 ?

One other interesting thing about the mast-mounted mmW radar photo is that it suggests that the PAA would use the Z-10ME in an integrated attack/recce role. Basically, there'd be a 'situational awareness' Z-10ME operating alongside units configured for 'attack.' China was also marketing a SPEAR-type cruise missile with the Z-10ME. I think Pakistan could pursue that to give the PAA its own SOW capability.

60 Z-10MEs + large numbers of Shahpar-IIs is a seriously stacked CAS capability.

Which Chinese AT missile is capable of using MMW radar guidance from Z-10 ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is this MMW Radar the same one on WZ-19 ?


Which Chinese AT missile is capable of using MMW radar guidance from Z-10 ?

Not sure of the ATGMs, but the YJ-9E can do it.

 

[Reichmarshal]

The PAA knew about the Mi-35's performance before it ordered them. It wanted that type of helicopter. It hasn't ordered additional units because of Russia's situation -- i.e., the risk of CAATSA sanctions.

Addition mi 35 r on order

 

[Scorpiooo]

Addition mi 35 r on order

There rumours are for very long time ... But if they were then should have been inducted till now in taht case

 

[iLION12345_1]

Addition mi 35 r on order

Highly unlikely. It’s been years since the supposed order was placed and we’ve seen nothing, the order should have been delivered 2 years ago if it existed.
plus Russia or PA never confirmed said order apart from one mention in AFM magazine.

I already said the supposed order was a dud over a year ago, and now with the war in Russia, doubly so.

Wouldn’t make sense to order something the PA doesn’t need anyways. Even originally it was bought partially to send a message to certain people about weapon purchases from Russia. PA needs that money for actual gun ships.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It'd depend more on the Z-10ME's high-altitude ops capability. The ideal scenario is that you have one platform type for use across all environments. That way, you only worry about one logistics chain and build numbers of that system.

A simpler solution to achieve that in the short term would be to mount powerful engines(top tier that China has to offer) with a relatively light helicopter...
...it would be akin to JF17...it would sacrifice payload capabilities and some internal room for possibly more powerful avionics or fuel(therefore might even be cheaper)...
...and in turn would be usable in almost all terrains(including Pakistan's north). Pak would be able to acquire it in large numbers and it would greatly simplify the logistics as u said.

I have always wanted something like that for Pakistan(which for long I had hoped would be somewhat indigenous like India's light attack helicopter) so that Pak can compete/keep up with India in terms of numbers(and some quality).