Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[cloud4000]

Is this a commercial deal or not? What trust issues exist if the same cN be awarded to INDIA which has been a life long ally of Russia? I am not implying transfer of critocal tech but tail Nd wings are not critical. Engine and software will come from US so they do not lose out. Iam merely expanding on an idea, not any concrete news. I base it on my little knowledge of aviagion which is infantile. I make no pretences to knowing much but lookat ideas and how they could progress. Feel free to correct me where youthink I am going wrong. I will appreciate it.
Regards

India's relationship with Russia didn't stop the US from offering the F-21 and having it built there. Since India has backed away from the aircraft, this may give Pakistan a chance, but it's a dim one. For one thing, what will the structure of the project? How much money is Pakistan going to have to kick in production costs and how many aircraft will PAF need to buy to make it appealing to LM? There are too many questions.

 

[Viper27]

So we have just landed back from Moon.

Can't say.. that's Fawad Chaudhry's domain.

FB fans mean MRO probably


Alan said same thing what he said about Zulus I don't know this time he referred you guys to LM.

On Zulus he said something like "reliably informed that this is not true". He didn't say who told him. Moreover, Alan covers PAF so he's not the go to guy for Army Aviation matters. This time however he has specifically tagged Lockheed Martin which gives even more strength to what he is saying.

 

[Tipu7]

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@airomerix
@Blacklight

Tagging these two members as they had broken news about EDA Vipers.

So, Allan Warnes has taken place as Asif Ghafoor of PAF?

 

[Scorpiooo]

 

[Bratva]

Can't say.. that's Fawad Chaudhry's domain.


On Zulus he said something like "reliably informed that this is not true". He didn't say who told him. Moreover, Alan covers PAF so he's not the go to guy for Army Aviation matters. This time however he has specifically tagged Lockheed Martin which gives even more strength to what he is saying.

Just to clear one thing. Alan warnes has reliable links in Pakistan Army Avaition. He extensively covered PAA couple years back and had met GOC PAA to write his report on PAA. The link to his PAA report

http://tangentlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2022_TangentLink_Pakistan-Army-Report-v1.pdf

 

[kursed]

Folks, if there are ever any MLU kits being negotiated, you'd see it in a DCSA notification - even if there's an intent for a sale. There's quite literally no way around it, until then, just treat a rumor as a rumor.

We have gone through this before at the time of Block 15 MLU, you all should know the routine.

 

[SABRE]

You remind me of the haram police. Going about acting self righteous telling everyone what to say or think.

& you remind of misconstrue-police that runs rampant now & then. No, that was not my intent: to act like haram police, acting self-righteous (certainly not) and telling you what to believe and what not to believe. It is a simple fact. If the DoD &/or Statement department release info it is an 'almost certainty,' and I call it that because 'almost uncertainty' also looms around at the same. They have on several occasions retracted announcements and decisions because of secretarial or presidential change of heart. In the mid-1970s, Pentagon sent a recommendation for 110 used A-7 for PAF to Ford led White House. A big fuss was made of it but the deal never went beyond "recommendation." It was later struck down by Carter. The same thing happened with the F-5. Big fuss in media only for the two sides to simultaneously retract from it. If there is indeed a DOD & State Department "recommendation" on selling Pakistan F-16s - new or old - it is, in essence, meaningless unless it receives consent or approval from the president.

Then there is the second issue of the 'election year.' Pakistan usually tries to stay away from any deal on military or economic assistance with the incumbent U.S. government during an election year in the U.S., as Zia did during 1980. This is an election year. Unless Trump can quickly streamline F-16 sales through Congress Pakistan would not push for it.

In the end, I may be wrong. But this what the past experience says.

 

[Raider 21]

Bohlari is on 25 Sq. kilometer area.

1. Not big enough to be Kamra in its present space.
2. Not by far the largest airbase. Some others are bigger.
3. 18 hardened shelters and 10 more Shelters on ADA Alert platform at both ends of the runways

Max two squadrons can be housed. And I see some large hanger being completed on 22L Hardened Shelter Taxiway.

Btw saw some Orions being parked at Masroor with a new hanger too.

2 more squadron buildings are being planned.

 

[The Raven]

& you remind of misconstrue-police that runs rampant now & then. No, that was not my intent: to act like haram police, acting self-righteous (certainly not) and telling you what to believe and what not to believe. It is a simple fact. If the DoD &/or Statement department release info it is an 'almost certainty,' and I call it that because 'almost uncertainty' also looms around at the same. They have on several occasions retracted announcements and decisions because of secretarial or presidential change of heart. In the mid-1970s, Pentagon sent a recommendation for 110 used A-7 for PAF to Ford led White House. A big fuss was made of it but the deal never went beyond "recommendation." It was later struck down by Carter. The same thing happened with the F-5. Big fuss in media only for the two sides to simultaneously retract from it. If there is indeed a DOD & State Department "recommendation" on selling Pakistan F-16s - new or old - it is, in essence, meaningless unless it receives consent or approval from the president.

Then there is the second issue of the 'election year.' Pakistan usually tries to stay away from any deal on military or economic assistance with the incumbent U.S. government during an election year in the U.S., as Zia did during 1980. This is an election year. Unless Trump can quickly streamline F-16 sales through Congress Pakistan would not push for it.

In the end, I may be wrong. But this what past experience says.

All excellent points Sabre, thanks for describing in detail. This is what this forum needs, well thought out and clearly described arguments.

 

[mingle]

Can't say.. that's Fawad Chaudhry's domain.


On Zulus he said something like "reliably informed that this is not true". He didn't say who told him. Moreover, Alan covers PAF so he's not the go to guy for Army Aviation matters. This time however he has specifically tagged Lockheed Martin which gives even more strength to what he is saying.

He clear cut said I don't know

 

[Nomad40]

So Bholari is going to be Kamra 2.0 for 16's i presume?

I Have already said that.

 

[Raider 21]

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@airomerix
@Blacklight

Tagging these two members as they had broken news about EDA Vipers.

LM would've commented to his tweet. So far he's unaware, and he would probably only know if an actual deal materialises.

Bholari is a mystery. I'm sure PAF, being the professionals they are, realize partnership with the US is about to end, so making a best attempt to get a hold of the aircraft that they love the most. That is most likely. Hope they succeed, even if it is EDA or politically managed somehow by Trump administration (like fighter transfer from Egypt or Jordan to Pakistan would need a Pompeo signature).

Indus Viper sounds like "Desert Viper". Could it also be a transfer of jets from the UAE? That would make them "block 70s" (70 not 72, as alluded to by @Khafee). The only reason this could happen is if the UAE is planning to get new vipers instead, or going for the Lightening II.

Partnership cannot end fully, as that would mean end of the Viper programs. Egypt won't let go of their Vipers (they'd rather offer them to India given their relationship). UAE will never sell the Block 60, and if anyone was to buy the Block 60, royalty payments would have to be paid to the UAE as they financed its development.

 

[Armchair]

LM would've commented to his tweet. So far he's unaware, and he would probably only know if an actual deal materialises.


Partnership cannot end fully, as that would mean end of the Viper programs. Egypt won't let go of their Vipers (they'd rather offer them to India given their relationship). UAE will never sell the Block 60, and if anyone was to buy the Block 60, royalty payments would have to be paid to the UAE as they financed its development.

Never say never. Stranger things have happened. I'm certain that if F-35s come to the ME (outside Israel), the first cut will be the UAE.

Sure, Egypt would rather sell to India, but India doesn't want F-16s let alone Block 52s. And they did just sell Horus Mirages. If that can happen, this can happen - with American support. US can simply ask them to transfer these to PAF and give them some other goodies instead.

This is all theoretical possibilities. Disclaimer for the immature who will jump and start saying "ah so you are saying Egypt is selling F-16s to Pakistan" and other assorted uncivilized types that come on PDF to snigger and insult others viewpoints, seems to give them a hard on or something.

 

[Viper27]

LM would've commented to his tweet. So far he's unaware, and he would probably only know if an actual deal materialises.


Partnership cannot end fully, as that would mean end of the Viper programs. Egypt won't let go of their Vipers (they'd rather offer them to India given their relationship). UAE will never sell the Block 60, and if anyone was to buy the Block 60, royalty payments would have to be paid to the UAE as they financed its development.

Which was exactly my point: as of now there appears to be no deal for any F-16V upgrades.

 

[Nomad40]

Yall should calm down in regards to arab states, They are not you're friend.