Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Viper27]

cant wait to see your face when 36 new vipers block72 start landing and cherry on top 9 c130, 20 used f16 and 12 zulus as well are coming

36 new, 20 Old, 9 C-130s... kuch zaida nai hogaya?

 

[Scorpiooo]

cant wait to see your face when 36 new vipers block72 start landing and cherry on top 9 c130, 20 used f16 and 12 zulus as well are coming

Lets hope its materialized in actual

 

[ziaulislam]

In theory, yes, the PAF can pursue used F-16s. Pakistan is (on paper) a Major Non-NATO Ally (MNNA) and can request access to mothballed ex-US equipment, and only pay for refurbishing them (under the Excess Defence Articles) program.

But when it comes to Pakistan, the theory doesn't apply.

The US isn't in the mood to help Pakistan get militarily stronger (as that'd concern India, which the US is working to get on board to help contain China).

The US wants normalization of ties between India and Pakistan (read: for India to get what it wants so that it can focus on China ... aka de-fang Pakistan).

The US is not going to de-fang Pakistan, but it doesn't want to sharpen those fangs either -- unless now India becomes a threat to the US.

That latter issue is at play from a policy standpoint, which has made getting used US equipment difficult for Pakistan. It's not just the F-16s, but also old helicopters, C-130s, old frigates, etc, you name it.

TLDR: The PAF is on everyone's sh!t list, more so than even the Pak Army or Pak Navy. Basically, air power is a strategic asset, especially if you have offensively capable assets and the freedom to equip, configure and deploy them at will.

And Pakistan is currently in a situation where it is an indirect threat to US interests (i.e., diverting India's attention away from China). The US will deny us that asset.

So, the only way to break from that is to (1) structurally transform your economy and get a miracle in your name so that you can outspend India on defence and/or (2) get solutions of your own like Project AZM.

Vey true but second group also states that by blocking everything Pakistan will simply get everything from china and that is a more dangerous situation ..
This isnt the 1990s to early 2000s. China now has an alternative to every piece of USA hardware ..
Usa doesnt want such a big country to completely slip into chinese hand. In the long run that would Be a bigger headache ..

So usa might balance stuff out..provide some equipment and hold other.

This will also depend on how hard does India lobby ..traditionally they lobby even against body armour and mine resistance vehicles !!

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Vwey true but second group also states that by blocking everything pakistan will simply get everything from china and that is more dangerous situation ..
Tgis isnt the 1990s to early 2000s. China now has alternative to every piece of usa hardware ..
Usa doesnt want such a big country to completely slip into chinese hand. In the long run that wout
Be a bigger headache ..

So usa might balance stuff out..provide some equipment and hold other..

This will also depend how hard does india lobby ..traditionally they lobby even against body armour and mine resistance vechiles !!

But US also wants India to focus more on China then Pakistan. Every piece of hardware sold to Pakistan can bridge the gap between Pakistan and India, even older blks of F-16s.

 

[ziaulislam]

w-r-t to corona i believe the chances have increased..so with the current polls situation..American companies will be lobbying for jobs, trump would want swift victory in Afghanistan as his approval ratings are all-time low....all of these are may result in drastic changes in foreign policy ..if nothing changes trump will not be looking at a second term

 

[The Raven]

cant wait to see your face when 36 new vipers block72 start landing and cherry on top 9 c130, 20 used f16 and 12 zulus as well are coming

Too many wet dreams.

 

[Blacklight]

But US also wants India to focus more on China then Pakistan. Every piece of hardware sold to Pakistan can bridge the gap between Pakistan and India, even older blks of F-16s.

This would also allow India to not get into unnecessary skirmishes / war with Pakistan, and focus on capability building.

 

[MastanKhan]

But US also wants India to focus more on China then Pakistan. Every piece of hardware sold to Pakistan can bridge the gap between Pakistan and India, even older blks of F-16s.

Hi,

F-16 procurement is next to impossible---.

Taking indian's attention away from pakistan towards china is inherently impossible---can't happen---won't happen---will never happen---.

 

[Blacklight]

Hi,

F-16 procurement is next to impossible---.

Taking indian's attention away from pakistan towards china is inherently impossible---can't happen---won't happen---will never happen---.

Well lets assume that the vipers are coming. Who is going to pay for it? There is no way CSF will pay for this.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well lets assume that the vipers are coming. Who is going to pay for it? There is no way CSF will pay for this.

Hi,

Well---then they are not coming---.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Vey true but second group also states that by blocking everything Pakistan will simply get everything from china and that is a more dangerous situation ..
This isnt the 1990s to early 2000s. China now has an alternative to every piece of USA hardware ..
Usa doesnt want such a big country to completely slip into chinese hand. In the long run that would Be a bigger headache ..

So usa might balance stuff out..provide some equipment and hold other.

This will also depend on how hard does India lobby ..traditionally they lobby even against body armour and mine resistance vehicles !!

It depends on whether Pakistani decision-makers can make that case with their actions.

If they constantly mismanage the economy, then we'll reach a point where we can only afford China's tier-2 hardware (rather than its tier-1 products). So, that's no case for the US to change tracts; if anything, mission accomplished -- this is exactly where they want Pakistan.

On the other hand, if our leaders do a good job managing the economy (and this job falls on both the politicians and the armed forces -- the latter can have a big positive impact if it executes correctly), and we can afford buying tier-1 equipment from anywhere, and even build some locally, then yes, the US will change course.

Sadly, we're nowhere close to that point. I hate saying this, but our armed forces must decide -- is it "IN" or is it "OUT." It can't have it both ways.

You can't have DHAs, Fauji Industries, etc with all that rent-seeking and what have you without taking the stick and enforcing a proper 5-year economic plan in every province (to hell with the 18th). Bring in economists to create the plan, and force it via SEZs, SOEs, grants, low-equity state investment in the private sector, tax collection, etc.

 

[MastanKhan]

Vey true but second group also states that by blocking everything Pakistan will simply get everything from china and that is a more dangerous situation ..
This isnt the 1990s to early 2000s. China now has an alternative to every piece of USA hardware ..
Usa doesnt want such a big country to completely slip into chinese hand. In the long run that would Be a bigger headache ..

So usa might balance stuff out..provide some equipment and hold other.

This will also depend on how hard does India lobby ..traditionally they lobby even against body armour and mine resistance vehicles !!

Hi,

Knowing the Paf---US would just keep dangling the carrot and the Paf will wait---waiting like the fox running beside the camel waiting for his lip to fall---.

US is not stupid to say all out no---.

The moment they see Paf deviating---they will make an offer and---then pull it back---.

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

Knowing the Paf---Us would just keep dangling the carrot and the Paf will wait---waiting like the fox running beside the camel waiting for his lip to fall---.

US is not stupid to say all out no---.

The moment they see Paf deviating---they will make an offer and---then pull it back---.

PAF top brass has been taken for a ride so many times by the US that it is beyond humiliation. And yet they still refuse to learn and listen. Just pathetic.

 

[ali_raza]

Hi,

F-16 procurement is next to impossible---.

Taking indian's attention away from pakistan towards china is inherently impossible---can't happen---won't happen---will never happen---.

why do u think its impossible
do u think pakistan is a lost cause for americans.

Hi,

Knowing the Paf---Us would just keep dangling the carrot and the Paf will wait---waiting like the fox running beside the camel waiting for his lip to fall---.

US is not stupid to say all out no---.

The moment they see Paf deviating---they will make an offer and---then pull it back---.

or maybe PAF lacks the skills of deal making
they might be good at wht they do but in financial matters or critical thinking u need a cunning guy who can play ball himself

 

[MastanKhan]

why do u think its impossible
do u think pakistan is a lost cause for americans.


or maybe PAF lacks the skills of deal making
they might be good at wht they do but in financial matters or critical thinking u need a cunning guy who can play ball himself

Hi,

There is no doubt that hey are terrible at deal making---.

Pakistanis in general are very stiff and stubborn people---americans if you can make buddies with them will do wonders for you---like how they gave us nuc scientists in the 60's & 70's and then nuc program---.

Yes---pakistan is basically a lost cause---. The deal making mentality of the americans has cost the americans pakistan---.

Deal making is a habbit with them---that is who the americans are ---they don't know any different how to act and behave----. They assume that other person is a weak person if they don't know how to make a deal---.

They don't understand that it is against pakistan's culture to make deals with your friends---. You have to learn to be reasonable and accommodating---and that is that last thing an american is---and what americans think as accommodating---pakistanis think as arm twisting and subjugating---.