Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Nasr]

Ghazwa - brilliant posts. What you are saying is actually true. It doesn’t matter If SA did get the HMS first - the Soviets beat the US hands down on HMS and HOBS by a decade or more.

So, if we allow our egos to settle down and ignore the semantics, the soviets did have the lead on countless technologies and Russia still has the lead on some.

We shouldn’t be overawed with the US, a common trait due to the colonial legacy.

A detail - Germans developed new WVR missiles after seeing what the MiG-29s had and the Western world followed. Don’t know why they didn’t learn from SA, maybe due to SA’s isolation.

Yes well we need to step out of the mentality that Western tech is the "end all, be all, cure all," of the world ... it's not! Countries seeking to modernize their military should go about with the strategy that neutralizes any susceptibility to Western sanctions. Best course is to go into joint ventures with non-Western countries. Russians and Chinese have proven to have the ability in surpassing or matching Western tech. And also, it's not just the military hardware that counts, it's also the training and ethos of the pilots, soldiers and sailors. PAF pilots proved that during the Arab-Israeli wars.

Same rational; why did the west or soviets not learn from us when we started to field mine proof vehicles from mid80s onwards; only in the 2nd 2005; they woke up because casualty rates in the golrified junks called Humvees etc was peaking at 12/day. This is not the only 2 cases, similarly for comms - it was not until mid 2000 they woke up and gave merit for hopping which we had in the field since the 60s - soviets tried and did a rudimentary work on it. many many more.... most laughable is the advanced muzzle brakes being tested now only by the US.. really it was in the G5/G6s starting in late 70s!

Yes and that's what perplexed me when PAF was buying Mirages from various countries. They could have had joint venture with South Africa not just with regards to Mirages, but also BVR/WVR missiles and etc.

It all boils down to reliable partners and so far for Pakistan, China has proven to be a lasting partner in all respects. Pakistan should be building on that and exploring new partner ventures with the likes of Russia and South Africa. Use the JF-17 Thunder template and explore ways forward with other countries (including China & Russia) to have similar success.

 

[Windjammer]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[MastanKhan]

Ghazwa - brilliant posts. What you are saying is actually true. It doesn’t matter If SA did get the HMS first - the Soviets beat the US hands down on HMS and HOBS by a decade or more.
We shouldn’t be overawed with the US, a common trait due to the colonial legacy.

Hi,

That was not an intelligent comment---.

The USAF has its own direction and assessment of weapons and weapons systems---.

The change is never a knee jerk reaction---old and trusted techniques are prefered---. Change is not made just for the sake of change---.

Russians have gained nothing over the usaf due to their hobs---if you have any combat examples---I would like to read them.

 

[truthseeker2010]

https://www.facebook.com/

thats shahbaz below!

 

[Armchair]

There are some really nice accounts if you look around on the internet - particularly those after East and West Germany reunited they were shocked when they evaluated the MiG-29s

Hi,

That was not an intelligent comment---.

The USAF has its own direction and assessment of weapons and weapons systems---.

The change is never a knee jerk reaction---old and trusted techniques are prefered---. Change is not made just for the sake of change---.

Russians have gained nothing over the usaf due to their hobs---if you have any combat examples---I would like to read them.

 

[Windjammer]

https://www.facebook.com/

thats shahbaz below!

Yes and the place looks huge, notice how long the F-16s are flying over the area.

 

[Raider 21]

https://www.facebook.com/

Yes and the place looks huge, notice how long the F-16s are flying over the area.

Final join up prior to landing.

thats shahbaz below!

One of the most hated areas for newcomers posted there....

 

[Trailer23]

The uploader clearly has poor taste in music...(sorry to say).

 

[Cuirassier]

Still waiting for ADF upgrade to MLU, if we can't get subsidized newer ones, at least upgrade the old lot!

Alas, our poor diplomacy and utterly sh*te image has stalled so many key defence deals. Foreign Service twats only give CSS for power and no one gives a damn about serving. Cameron Munter was so on point when he said that our civil institutions are cra*, which is supposed to be the backbone. As a result everything is fauj ka bauj, and mA their PR is nothing but stupid songs for the maraasi awaam. But I don't expect that from them, not their job.

We seriously need to arrange a proper Trump-Khan meeting and settle things, or else so much is going down the drain as we waste our time in cussing the opposition and sending rivals into jail.

 

[cloud4000]

We seriously need to arrange a proper Trump-Khan meeting and settle things, or else so much is going down the drain as we waste our time in cussing the opposition and sending rivals into jail.

Pak-US relations will change for the better once the issue of Afghanistan is settled. Then things go beyond the usual national security and counter-terrorism mindset and into a more normal relations like trade.

 

[Cuirassier]

Pak-US relations will change for the better once the issue of Afghanistan is settled. Then things go beyond the usual national security and counter-terrorism mindset and into a more normal relations like trade.

Exactly, we have a conflict of interests there. Same case b/w Turks and US in Syria. US involvements always end up souring relations with capable allies.
Govt thinks we can overcome the gap by Chinese stuff, not true.

 

[MastanKhan]

There are some really nice accounts if you look around on the internet - particularly those after East and West Germany reunited they were shocked when they evaluated the MiG-29s

Hi,

You are not listening to what I am saying---. You keep pushing your belief about americans that is not correct---.

Americans are never shocked---they are bemused---. Then they will go look to combat the situation where they come out ahead---.

Some losses don't mean much to the US military---. Until and unless some really superior power emerges that has weapons in all categories to take on the US military---then the US military will be really really concerned---..

I have read about the Mig29 off bore sight capability a long time ago---. If the americans were truly concerned about it---they would have made the change right away---.

Just as according to Denel---they upgraded their vehicles to south african standards against ied's---.

 

[CriticalThought]

One of the most hated areas for newcomers posted there....

Why so? Because of the heat?

 

[Cuirassier]

Are our 13 F16 ADF/OCU fighters armed with AIM-120s? Considering that we only have 500 of these missiles it doesn't look like No.19 operates them.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

Are our 13 F16 ADF/OCU fighters armed with AIM-120s? Considering that we only have 500 of these missiles it doesn't look like No.19 operates them.

500 is not a small number..