Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Manticore]

My opinion is FC-20 is something if PAF goes back to procurement plans could replace Mirage 5 ROSE and large Numbers of F-7P/PG with JF-17s. On the other hand getting FC-20 would be like killing JF-17 Program and its Future prospect so maybe the plan is in place but post 2020. I maintain Thunder should be invested into along the lines of F-16 Program for years to come, how impressive it is what Boeing is doing with F/A-18E/F [Advance Super Hornet] could be applied to Thunder in coming years when ever Funds are available.

buying f16s and fc20 means that paf does not foresee the same engine enhancements, as were available for the light fighter f16 to evolve into a medium wt fighter, for jf-17

 

[MastanKhan]

Actually we did... even A-5 was a twin engine jet...

Sir,

Wrong answer----the a5 could not take off on its single engine----the performance of those 2 engines put together was sort of half that of the single engine JF17-----.

Just comparing this aircraft to the adf's like su30 rafale or F18's, J11's etc is in poor judgement---. So---bsically---PK has no experience in a tru twin engine.

 

[araz]

My opinion is FC-20 is something if PAF goes back to procurement plans could replace Mirage 5 ROSE and large Numbers of F-7P/PG with JF-17s. On the other hand getting FC-20 would be like killing JF-17 Program and its Future prospect so maybe the plan is in place but post 2020. I maintain Thunder should be invested into along the lines of F-16 Program for years to come, how impressive it is what Boeing is doing with F/A-18E/F [Advance Super Hornet] could be applied to Thunder in coming years when ever Funds are available.

But the PLAAN is goiñg to buy the JFT and 300 planes means it is good enough and can be inducted quickly enough. The future prozpects remain bright and to compare JFT and its viability vis a vis J10 is unfair. However production of 2 platforms simultaneously will certainly be interesting . J10 is still a need and I agree it will replace the ROSE mirages.. As to the money that is the million dollar question.
Araz

 

[Kompromat]

@Manticore @Luftwaffe

Someone is blowing smoke here. WS-10 series of engines are way too big for J-31 aircrafts. They'll be powered by WS-13 rather which are not ready yet and won't be ready anytime soon.

I've also heard that PAF is keen on RD-93MA for Thunders and a possibility of 8 'new' F-16c Block52+ on top of old ones.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Manticore @Luftwaffe

Someone is blowing smoke here. WS-10 series of engines are way too big for J-31 aircrafts. They'll be powered by WS-13 rather which are not ready yet and won't be ready anytime soon.

I've also heard that PAF is keen on RD-93MA for Thunders and a possibility of 8 'new' F-16c Block52+ on top of old ones.

You are going to give heart attack to certain Nationalities about more F-16s new or refurbished Either and the more reliable powerful RD-93MA.

One thing is clear funds from any source; Pakistan wants atleast 100 Fighting Falcons, it make sense from experience & operational point of view and same Type in service rather than getting a new Type in short span.

 

[Kompromat]

You are going to give heart attack to certain Nationalities about more F-16s new or refurbished Either and the more reliable powerful RD-93MA.

One thing is clear funds from any source; Pakistan wants atleast 100 Fighting Falcons, it make sense from experience & operational point of view and same Type in service rather than getting a new Type in short span.

Sounds right. F-16s *will* dominate adversery's 4th generation fleet along with a well evolved JFT fleet. PAF is all in a mood to raise it along the lines of the Gripen program.

I personally don't see FC-20s in PAF colors as they offer us no 'unique' advantages. The lack of AESA radars everyone touts so much about is taken care of by Erieye,ZDK-3,AN/TPS-77 inductions for now. At the moment we have a tactical 'advantage' over IAF in regards to territorial coverage and early warning.

 

[monitor]

You are going to give heart attack to certain Nationalities about more F-16s new or refurbished Either and the more reliable powerful RD-93MA.

One thing is clear funds from any source; Pakistan wants atleast 100 Fighting Falcons, it make sense from experience & operational point of view and same Type in service rather than getting a new Type in short span.

According to pakdef Pakistan have infrastructure to operate around 100 F-16 so you may see more old and F-16 in you fleet .

 

[Luftwaffe]

According to pakdef Pakistan have infrastructure to operate around 100 F-16 so you may see more old and F-16 in you fleet .

That is the exact reason to get more. PAF can maintain adequate Numbers 100+ Fleet better than EgyptianAF.

 

[Donatello]

@Manticore @Luftwaffe

Someone is blowing smoke here. WS-10 series of engines are way too big for J-31 aircrafts. They'll be powered by WS-13 rather which are not ready yet and won't be ready anytime soon.

I've also heard that PAF is keen on RD-93MA for Thunders and a possibility of 8 'new' F-16c Block52+ on top of old ones.

Getting just 8 new Block52+ doesn't make sense. How can you operate a squadron with a mix of jets? Simply either buy a 18 more (i guess the old congress approval of 36 is still valid) or scoop up used MLU, non-MLU f-16s and bring them to the same standard in the fleet.

Actually it would be better if PAF went for F-16D BLK52 with the dorsal spine. Legend says it has got some serious ECM/EW systems in place to act as a wild weasel role.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Getting just 8 new Block52+ doesn't make sense. How can you operate a squadron with a mix of jets? Simply either buy a 18 more (i guess the old congress approval of 36 is still valid) or scoop up used MLU, non-MLU f-16s and bring them to the same standard in the fleet.

Actually it would be better if PAF went for F-16D BLK52 with the dorsal spine. Legend says it has got some serious ECM/EW systems in place to act as a wild weasel role.

- who are possible source /sellers for more F16 for block 52 standards

 

[S.U.R.B.]

When the USA can trust the Turkish Aerospace industry for the production line and MLU upgrades for the F-16, then why can't the Chinese share their workload with us?

Yes, license production and establishment phase will not ba an easy task in the start,looking at the grim picture of our economy and keeping in view our struggle with the JFT platform.
There we'll require the Chinese help.And can be settle it with a suitable bargain.
But Pakistan can generate the man power and we are up for the expansion of our industry in the future ,aren't we?

TAI started with co production of F-16s and look at their progress in all these years.

TAI is working on over 50 military and commercial programs today. As a partner of the Airbus defence and space, TAI has been participating in the design and development activities of the Airbus A400M program with the leading European aerospace companies; namely Airbus (France, Germany, Spain and UK), EADS CASA (Spain) and FLABEL (Belgium) from the beginning of the project. TAI has accepted the production of A350XWB's winglets with the new cooperation.

• ^^^^ It'll take time to match that.But we must make the hay while the sun shines.Let's just not say "NO" to the business that can come our way.Our efforts on any platform other than the JFT,will do us much good on the industrial level.Just even that will be a big step forward.

• While saying that, i should mention that there is no compulsion on the PAF to go and buy the AC that they can skip on for a true 5th generation fighter jet.You can do the business ,earn more experience and save your finances for the next and better purchase.

(The only difference here will be that the Turkish airforce does operate the F-16s while we will be completing the Chinese/ International orders,if any.)

• The next decade will dawn with it's own requirement list,with some of the prominent air forces around the world operating their 5th generation platforms.So, lagging behind and investing our money on the wrong option can not be an acceptable plan.

• At the end of this decade the JF-17 block 3 will be up as a 4.5 generation AC.We already have got the Block -52s with that the MLU of the rest of the F-16 fleet will quench our desire for any 4 or 4.5 generation platform.Obviously the 3rd one has to be the better one.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Those fear mongers on this board and on PAKDEF.ORG----who talked about the sanctions on the F16's----their mouths have been shut.

For 12 years now I have talked about the F16 being the right aircraft for the PAF---and since 2005 on this board---a year before on pakdef.org---on pakistanidefence forum etc etc etc.

It was the simple truth that pakistanis needed to envision to take out the al qaeda at the earliest possible and get what you want from the U S.

So---now---that is where we are----. At this stage---pak needs to have a minimum of 150---to 175 F16 blk 52's and MLU'd aircraft in its inventory in the next 3 years all put together.

As or the JF 17---it needs a total of 175 aircraft----- + 36 J11's.

Can pakistan get the J11's---????????

The problem is that china suddenly finds itself in a quandry----. As I have stated many a times----you plan and buy 10 years in advance in time of peace for the " supposed " wars that you might fight with your neighbours.

China realizes that it is in a fcuked up situation----there is japan on one side---taiwan maybe---but vietnam and philipines with the backing of the u s on the other side---and india openly declaring that all its major weapons purchase is to fight china----.

With small incidences escalating---china finds that its air force is woefully ill equipped to fight. It has a massive shortage of frontline Air Dominance / Air Superiority aircraft in its arsenal. Its industry is also woefully ill equipped to produce the numbers of aircraft to fill in the gap.

If today---china had double the numbers of J10's---and su 27's and su 30's and J11's---its political posturing would have been taken differently.

Also with the technology increasing in massive leaps and bounds within weeks and months----it becomes extremely difficult to decide on what is important and what is not.

To me---it seems like the chinese have been caught up in their " too clever a trap ".

Otoh----PAF has a breath of fresh air---. Somebody woke up one day and realized that there is nowhere to go but the USED F 16----refurbish it---upgrade it and W'allah you have a frontline fighter aircraft that can be used for 10 different roles in an extremely cost effective manner.

Due to russian invasion of ukraine---Sweden and norway find that they are fcuked up right now---.

 

[Donatello]

- who are possible source /sellers for more F16 for block 52 standards

Obviously either the manufacturer or current users.

Why are you so worried?

 

[Manticore]

Buying and upgrading old F-16 - Are they worth it? | Page 4
go here

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Buying and upgrading old F-16 - Are they worth it? | Page 4
go here

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thanks ...