Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[HRK]

This under attach document gives confirmation about the 35 MLU F-16.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/pakarms.pdf

 

[Manticore]

H Khan at pak def said---[QUOT]

Some days old news: PAF Air Vice Marshall Sohail Aman, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) is in the US. Yesterday he visited Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona. He'll be traveling to LM plant at DFW, also

PAF is planning to acquire 17 more Jordanian F-16s and 14 from another source.

PAF and China now in negotiation to co-develop/produce FC-20 at PAC. FC-20 is third version of original J-10A. Chengdu has already told PLAAF that in its present facilities it can't manage the orders that PLAAF has placed. Few factors have stalled FC-20 are financial, WS-10 has not developed into a performance based engine, if the present engine is used then the both China and Pakistan have to conduct negotiations with Russia.



There are three different versions of J-10. J-10A (present production), J-10B (Testing phase) and FC-20.

Since there are production capacity issues with J-10, PLAN has received only enough aircrafts for one regiment and it is pushing to get more J-10 at faster rate which is not possible. PLAN has started to look at FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap for its needs. If this goes through the order for FC-1/JF-17 would be close to 300 aircrafts.

China has too many aircraft projects on its plate. Suggesting that PAC and Shenyang should jointly work on J-20 project rather then proceeding with Chengdu FC-20 project. Just a little prudent thought, which is free!

PLAAn has already taken delivery of J-10A fulfilling aircrafts for one regiment, however, they are in need of more J-10A. But the Chengdu plant which produces J-10A has huge backlog of orders for PLAAF and has it made clear that they can't take more orders with the production, hence, they are in need to fulfill their requirement. They are looking towards FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap and the total number of aircraft they require is close to 300.





I didn't mean that PLAAN are in need of FC-20

PAF was decided to get as many F-16 as possible. The issue here is again that F-16 is in the inventory for the past 30+ years and the PAF has more or less know ins and outs of this beauty of an aircraft



J-10B is J-10A with a lot of improved avionics but same engine. FC-20 is more J-10B based but with WS-10 engine, which apparently is the hurdle. PLAAF and PLAAN are in need of J-10A and if and when PAF wants it it will not be able to get a production slots in line, this is the issue.



If the engine issue is resolved then I think PAF should invest in F-31which will eventually have two-WS-10 rather then investing in J-20 which is need of rather a very powerful engine in the category of Saturn 117S.

[/QUOT]

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

H Khan at pak def said---[QUOT]

Some days old news: PAF Air Vice Marshall Sohail Aman, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) is in the US. Yesterday he visited Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona. He'll be traveling to LM plant at DFW, also

PAF is planning to acquire 17 more Jordanian F-16s and 14 from another source.

PAF and China now in negotiation to co-develop/produce FC-20 at PAC. FC-20 is third version of original J-10A. Chengdu has already told PLAAF that in its present facilities it can't manage the orders that PLAAF has placed. Few factors have stalled FC-20 are financial, WS-10 has not developed into a performance based engine, if the present engine is used then the both China and Pakistan have to conduct negotiations with Russia.



There are three different versions of J-10. J-10A (present production), J-10B (Testing phase) and FC-20.

Since there are production capacity issues with J-10, PLAN has received only enough aircrafts for one regiment and it is pushing to get more J-10 at faster rate which is not possible. PLAN has started to look at FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap for its needs. If this goes through the order for FC-1/JF-17 would be close to 300 aircrafts.

China has too many aircraft projects on its plate. Suggesting that PAC and Shenyang should jointly work on J-20 project rather then proceeding with Chengdu FC-20 project. Just a little prudent thought, which is free!

PLAAn has already taken delivery of J-10A fulfilling aircrafts for one regiment, however, they are in need of more J-10A. But the Chengdu plant which produces J-10A has huge backlog of orders for PLAAF and has it made clear that they can't take more orders with the production, hence, they are in need to fulfill their requirement. They are looking towards FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap and the total number of aircraft they require is close to 300.





I didn't mean that PLAAN are in need of FC-20[/QUOT]

wouldnt it be better if we joined J-20 project instead of FC-20? 5th gen is the future?

 

[Armstrong]

H Khan at pak def said---[QUOT]

Some days old news: PAF Air Vice Marshall Sohail Aman, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) is in the US. Yesterday he visited Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona. He'll be traveling to LM plant at DFW, also

PAF is planning to acquire 17 more Jordanian F-16s and 14 from another source.

PAF and China now in negotiation to co-develop/produce FC-20 at PAC. FC-20 is third version of original J-10A. Chengdu has already told PLAAF that in its present facilities it can't manage the orders that PLAAF has placed. Few factors have stalled FC-20 are financial, WS-10 has not developed into a performance based engine, if the present engine is used then the both China and Pakistan have to conduct negotiations with Russia.



There are three different versions of J-10. J-10A (present production), J-10B (Testing phase) and FC-20.

Since there are production capacity issues with J-10, PLAN has received only enough aircrafts for one regiment and it is pushing to get more J-10 at faster rate which is not possible. PLAN has started to look at FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap for its needs. If this goes through the order for FC-1/JF-17 would be close to 300 aircrafts.

China has too many aircraft projects on its plate. Suggesting that PAC and Shenyang should jointly work on J-20 project rather then proceeding with Chengdu FC-20 project. Just a little prudent thought, which is free!

PLAAn has already taken delivery of J-10A fulfilling aircrafts for one regiment, however, they are in need of more J-10A. But the Chengdu plant which produces J-10A has huge backlog of orders for PLAAF and has it made clear that they can't take more orders with the production, hence, they are in need to fulfill their requirement. They are looking towards FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap and the total number of aircraft they require is close to 300.





I didn't mean that PLAAN are in need of FC-20[/QUOT]

Yaaar qasam seh can this be true ?

Is this guy you're quoting usually spot on ?

 

[Basel]

If we are getting F-16s easily then we must look for future 5th gen JV with China and it should be the top of the line aircraft not 2nd tier plane like F-35, because PAF have to face very potent and resourceful adversary in future, which will be fielding a large number of 4.5, 4.5++ & 5th gent fighter with advance layered air defense. Govt. have to make funds available some how for this kind of project, because 5th gen tech is leaps ahead from its predecessor generation and its here to stay for long time.

 

[Indus Falcon]

If we are getting F-16s easily then we must look for future 5th gen JV with China and it should be the top of the line aircraft not 2nd tier plane like F-35, because PAF have to face very potent and resourceful adversary in future, which will be fielding a large number of 4.5, 4.5++ & 5th gent fighter with advance layered air defense. Govt. have to make funds available some how for this kind of project, because 5th gen tech is leaps ahead from its predecessor generation and its here to stay for long time.

Govt. ko forsat nahi hai qaumi khazana lootnay say, aur aap 5gen ki batien kar rahe hain!

Contrary to what armchair generals think on this forum, getting the Jordanian birds was no easy task, financially speaking!

 

[GreenFalcon]

wouldnt it be better if we joined J-20 project instead of FC-20? 5th gen is the future?

Pakistan has a never had a double-engine jet like J-20 does/ J-31 a single-engine stealth plane is a different story./ There was a thread recently where a PAF marshall said that they won't purchase the j-10 but rather look into the 5th generation planes, which Im' pretty sure is going to be the J-31

 

[araz]

If we are getting F-16s easily then we must look for future 5th gen JV with China and it should be the top of the line aircraft not 2nd tier plane like F-35, because PAF have to face very potent and resourceful adversary in future, which will be fielding a large number of 4.5, 4.5++ & 5th gent fighter with advance layered air defense. Govt. have to make funds available some how for this kind of project, because 5th gen tech is leaps ahead from its predecessor generation and its here to stay for long time.

PAFs response will depend on what is available with the chinese. You have to understand that there may be nothing available till 2022-25 as far as 5th gen platforms go. The time to act is now and PAF has grabbed it with both hands
The real question of even more interest is whether PAC will be allowed to manufacture J10B and its implications on JFT Production. This is a very interesting scenario in which true to its own colour PAF is countering the much more expensive expansion of the Eastern neighbours fleet with both quality and quantity witout breaking the bank. The other thing to think is what considerations if any will the chinese have to allow us to manufacture their pride and joy. The prospects for JFT are also getting better with a more realistic assessment of the manufacturing process of theJ10 and the time taken to rack up the numbers required. we need to wait and follow this scenario more closely

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistan has a never had a double-engine jet like J-20 does/ J-31 a single-engine stealth plane is a different story./ There was a thread recently where a PAF marshall said that they won't purchase the j-10 but rather look into the 5th generation planes, which Im' pretty sure is going to be the J-31

Actually we did... even A-5 was a twin engine jet...

 

[Indus Falcon]

Pakistan has a never had a double-engine jet like J-20 does/ J-31 a single-engine stealth plane is a different story./ There was a thread recently where a PAF marshall said that they won't purchase the j-10 but rather look into the 5th generation planes, which Im' pretty sure is going to be the J-31

F6/ Chinese Mig 19 farmer and A5 fantan both were dual engine. But you are right we need to invest in 5th Gen ASAP!

 

[GreenFalcon]

PAFs response will depend on what isavailable with the chinese. You have to understand tbat tbere .aybe othing available till 2022-25.
The real question of even more intefest is whether PAC will be allowed to manufacture J10B and its implications on JFT Production. This is a very interesting scenario in which true to its own colour PAF is countering the much more expensive expansion of the Eastern neighbours fleet with both quality and quantity witout rea

I agree, we should buy out as many F-16s as possible while continuing the JFT productions, plus our eastern neighbors won't get the PAK FA T-50 until 2022 until then China might have the J-31s ready for us

Actually we did... even A-5 was a twin engine jet...

F6/ Chinese Mig 19 farmer and A5 fantan both were dual engine. But you are right we need to invest in 5th Gen ASAP!

you're right Im sorry, I didn't know

F6/ Chinese Mig 19 farmer and A5 fantan both were dual engine. But you are right we need to invest in 5th Gen ASAP!

Which 5th generation do u think is a realistic option for us? I'm thinking J-31 all the way

 

[Indus Falcon]

I agree, we should buy out as many F-16s as possible while continuing the JFT productions, plus our eastern neighbors won't get the PAK FA T-20 until 2022 until then China might have the J-31s ready for us




you're right Im sorry, I didn't know


Which 5th generation do u think is a realistic option for us? I'm thinking J-31 all the way

Bhai honestly speaking the Jordanian deal would have fallen apart, had pindi not intervened. So any future induction, of a new / old platform, will depend on how serious pindi is. People are going to howl, scream and maybe even ban me, but an old fool is entitled to his opinion!

 

[Manticore]

If the production line is at pac, it might be quicker and cheaper to get the fc20 however setting up a j10 production line is costly itself even if the chinese allow it particularly when we are concurrently making jf17 and buying old f16s

If this approach is being taken, maybe induction of 5th gen is much delayed than we had initially thought or this is just a tactic to get old f16s. If we are getting fc20, even when we might be able to buy more mlu kits, fc20 would be giving a different capability to the paf

 

[Quwa]

Yaaar qasam seh can this be true ?

Is this guy you're quoting usually spot on ?

H Khan isn't a news source, he's an insider and when it comes to insider information, things can change. But he's no liar.

 

[Luftwaffe]

My opinion is FC-20 is something if PAF goes back to procurement plans could replace Mirage 5 ROSE and large Numbers of F-7P/PG with JF-17s. On the other hand getting FC-20 would be like killing JF-17 Program and its Future prospect so maybe the plan is in place but post 2020. I maintain Thunder should be invested into along the lines of F-16 Program for years to come, how impressive it is what Boeing is doing with F/A-18E/F [Advance Super Hornet] could be applied to Thunder in coming years when ever Funds are available.