Buying and upgrading old F-16 - Are they worth it?

[Manticore]

Jordsnisn f16 are not block 52 they are the much older block 15/20...

Block 52 are very modern and far more expensive and a match even for the 200 Su30mki that iaf field today

the 60 mlu kits that we bought covers these 13 block15s as well
Details of the potential sale to Pakistan

 

[slapshot]

Jordsnisn f16 are not block 52 they are the much older block 15/20...

Block 52 are very modern and far more expensive and a match even for the 200 Su30mki that iaf field today

You know nothing about the topic on hand and just throwing random rants to derail the thread. Pakistan have 15 MLU upgrades kits available which will be used to upgrade these newly inducted jets to 52 standards.

 

[Last Samuri]

Nobody is derailing or trolling and stop bring so defensive.

We understand for you guys a small batch of additional fslcons. Is a big leap in your potential capability.

And thirty additional fslcons is better than even 100 f7 or mirage five .

 

[slapshot]

Nobody is derailing or trolling and stop bring so defensive.

We understand for you guys a small batch of additional fslcons. Is a big leap in your potential capability.

And thirty additional fslcons is better than even 100 f7 or mirage five .

so you do understand! BTW instead of our F7s you should say they are better then hundreds of flying coffins IAF have

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Nobody is derailing or trolling and stop bring so defensive.

We understand for you guys a small batch of additional fslcons. Is a big leap in your potential capability.

And thirty additional fslcons is better than even 100 f7 or mirage five .

-
even one addition of potent figter can change result of battle if not war

 

[Windjammer]

--
dear ..
if you say me f16 better than Rafael /typhon/ f15 ... fine i dont want to argue.. as you may have more info than me .. but i dont agree.

Mate I'm not saying one is better than other, neither one should write off F-16 because some newer toys are in the market, F-16 is a matured machine, there is a reason why after 40 years it's still in production and don't forget the old school, an aircraft is only good as it's pilot.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

so you do understand! BTW instead of our F7s you should say they are better then hundreds of flying coffins IAF have

--
iaf - flying coffins not required dear

 

[araz]

With this latest acquisition of 13 from Jordan, the total number of F-16 in PAF inventory MOVES UP TO 75 appx, a mix of Blk-52, and MLU F-16s. This is not a small number by any means and the F-16 in PAF will be a force to reckon with considering the expertise PAF have on F-16 with all those years of operating this bird.
The main BVRAAM that PAF is using with F-16 is AIM-120C and i do not think there is any thing required to said to tell you how mature and potent this missile system is. Perhaps the most reliable BVRAAM in the world at this point of time.
I do not want to go into this vs that but i do not think that the Mirage and Mig along with Su-30 is a problem that F-16 CANNOT handle! The aricraft mission profile and specs tell us that i can do this job very well

Persuit of happiness
Boy if my fingers are stubby yours must be like logs. your conversation is becoming increasingly incoherent. Sir there is an advantage in having a platform in numbers. Why do you think we are only going for bl. 15 As and Bs and MLUing them. Think man . The answers that you seek are right in front of you. I wont spoon feed you. Secondly can you understand why we are procuring these platforms. Again the organ that sits on top of your nose needs to be used.No one knows what the outcome of this vs that would be. If MKI is such a good plane why are you getting so broody about having Rafale in your inventory. For your information during the 02 impasse between you and us your dear providers stopped our upgraded M3s and the last of the augùstas . At least we were able to keep the 16s going inspite of embargoes through the black market and friendly and not so friendly( know who I mean?))countries help. Who will supply you Rafale parts?. Your aviation sector has had problems manufacturing the yumm kay Eyes, how do you think it will fare with the Rafales. Man the french are getting positively dehydrated handing over the responsibilities of manufacturing the Rafales and picking up the poo once they fall off the sky. Is it not what is currently holding the deal? .OH man I could have a field day parading your wet knickers but then that would not be nice would it?
In a nutshell being rather nice to you I would say we are buying the F16s because they suit us. If you dont like it take a hike!! As to the other factors you have raised regarding the fickleness of the US as a supplier and I have conveyed to you that the french will be no different. When it comes to war no one likes to see their hardware going down so dont expect the US to pass on the source codes of the AAMs to you or anyone else. As to war in the sub continent the consequences of it would be too disasterous for me to wish it on my worst enemy So lets relax and concentrate on the debate.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Mate I'm not saying one is better than other, neither one should write off F-16 because some newer toys are in the market, F-16 is a matured machine, there is a reason why after 40 years it's still in production and don't forget the old school, an aircraft is only good as it's pilot.

-
f16 is g8 machine , but it needs to evolve .
its old but still leathal..
but
you can race with old mastang with ferrari but can you win race even you have g8 driver ..
pilot also only good as what he gets to train and drive...
i dont want to wrie off the f16 but pointing out its over reliance is not advisable ..
need another capable pltform lie f16 for paf

 

[Munir]

This discussion is pathetic. I do not think we can take it serious.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

0ersjit of happiness
Boy if my fingers are stubby yours must be like logs. your conversation is becoming increasingly incoherent. Sir there is an advantage in having a platform in numbers. Why do you think we are only going for bl. 15 As and Bs and MLUing them. Think man . The answers that you seek are right in front of you. I wont spoon feed you. Secondly can you understand why we are procuring these platforms. Again the organ that sits on top of your nose needs to be used.No one knows what the outcome of this vs that would be. If MKI is such a good plane why are you getting so broody about having Rafale in your inventory. For your information during the 02 impasse between you and us your dear providers stopped our upgraded M3s and the last of the augùstas . At least we were able to keep the 16s going inspite of embargoes through the black market and friendly and not so friendly( know who I mean?))countries help. Who will supply you Rafale parts?. Your aviation sector has had problems manufacturing the yumm kay Eyes, how do you think it will fare with the Rafales. Man the french are getting positively dehydrated handing over the responsibilities of manufacturing the Rafales and picking up the poo once they fall off the sky. Is it not what is currently holding the deal? .OH man I could have a field day parading your wet knickers but then that would not be nice would it?
In a nutshell being rather nice to you I would say we are buying the F16s because they suit us. If you dont like it take a hike!! As to the other factors you have raised regarding the fickleness of the US as a supplier and I have conveyed to you that the french will be no different. When it comes to war no one likes to see their hardware going down so dont expect the US to pass on the source codes of the AAMs to you or anyone else. As to war in the sub continent the consequences of it would be too disasterous for me to wish it on my worst enemy So lets relax and concentrate on the debate.

---
thanks for reply..
i think you marked wrong guy.. seems it for me let me reply....
1. f16 supply.
please first understand.. my point was when paf want to move away from American hardware so they came with jf17.
most of PAF hardware is Chinese ..
so additing more F!6 is good move for numbers
but is it wise strategically ?

2. Rafael deal..
as you are think tank...hope you understand how IAF work ..
its,
Su30 - Air superiority ./dominance
rafael - Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) - to replace old mig
LCA - 2nd line ../ CAP/CAS

we are comfortable with Su30 but not with mig - which crashed just today and warrior died .. so rafael need asap as we are paying huge cost of life of personnel

3. Indian capability manufacturing..
we are not g8 accepted but we are not worst too..
we are not mad to ask for TOT when IAF/MOD known who can handle what ..private or public sector.
TOT was imp parameter in tender which means we know our business well..

4. French vs USA..
when world put bans in nuclear test in 1998 .. France stood by us ..
CNS - World Reaction to the Indian Nuclear Tests
France has criticized India but said it opposed US sanctions and will not apply its own.
(International Herald Tribune, 14 May 98)

french are shrewd businessmen they know where value (not money only ) is .
can you have same support form usa ?

5. . If you dont like it take a hike!
its not about our liking.. we did not want partition too but who cares ..
it country your call..
i never said in any post that we dont like .. non of our business.

5. your language..
boy if my fingers are stubby yours must be like logs
I wont spoon feed you. Secondly can you understand why we are procuring these platforms. Again the organ that sits on top of your nose needs to be used
OH man I could have a field day parading your wet knickers but then that would not be nice would it?
you are elite member .. this language suits you?
i am civil and did not abuse anyone to get this words ..
i hope you take care of that .....

 

[araz]

---
thanks for reply..
i think you marked wrong guy.. seems it for me let me reply....
1. f16 supply.
please first understand.. my point was when paf want to move away from American hardware so they came with jf17.
most of PAF hardware is Chinese ..
so additing more F!6 is good move for numbers
but is it wise strategically ?

2. Rafael deal..
as you are think tank...hope you understand how IAF work ..
its,
Su30 - Air superiority ./dominance
rafael - Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) - to replace old mig
LCA - 2nd line ../ CAP/CAS

we are comfortable with Su30 but not with mig - which crashed just today and warrior died .. so rafael need asap as we are paying huge cost of life of personnel

3. Indian capability manufacturing..
we are not g8 accepted but we are not worst too..
we are not mad to ask for TOT when IAF/MOD known who can handle what ..private or public sector.
TOT was imp parameter in tender which means we know our business well..

4. French vs USA..
when world put bans in nuclear test in 1998 .. France stood by us ..
CNS - World Reaction to the Indian Nuclear Tests
France has criticized India but said it opposed US sanctions and will not apply its own.
(International Herald Tribune, 14 May 98)

french are shrewd businessmen they know where value (not money only ) is .
can you have same support form usa ?

5. . If you dont like it take a hike!
its not about our liking.. we did not want partition too but who cares ..
it country your call..
i never said in any post that we dont like .. non of our business.

5. your language..
boy if my fingers are stubby yours must be like logs
I wont spoon feed you. Secondly can you understand why we are procuring these platforms. Again the organ that sits on top of your nose needs to be used
OH man I could have a field day parading your wet knickers but then that would not be nice would it?
you are elite member .. this language suits you?
i am civil and did not abuse anyone to get this words ..
i hope you take care of that .....

Sir Persuit of happiness.
Firstly My language as it seems to have erked you. The jibe towards fingers was in gest as I have been accused of not writing/misspelling words as I mostly type on my PDA which is small and my fingers do not go the right way mostly. No insult meant. The rest I stand by as you are repeatedly asking the same question which has been answered repeatedly not only by me but also by other members. I am a lot older than most posters here ans it irritates me how threads are diverted by people asking questions which have been answered many a times before.
Now to points raised.
1.You have not understood the ethos behind JFT.It was never meant totake on the role of F16s. It was always a small work horse fighter.For the hiprofile we wouls always have looked elsewhere.
2. And you procure a Delta with Canards for mid level support. Please read the profile where a delta works best. Your LCA is nowhere in sight due to mismanagement of your aviation experts biting off more than they could chew. Look at it objectively-- you have not inducted a fighter and you are on to block two. This is unheard of. It has not complied with your Airforces need which is why you want ot make it better but the problem is by the time it comes on it would have lost its efficacy due to the time elapsed and requirements would have moved on. Which is why the search for planes to replace the migs is so urgent.
I want to commiserate with you over the loss of your airman. No one deserves to loose a brave soldier unnecessary and it is lamentable. But understand why we are replacing the 7Ps as quickly as we can.
3..The problem is not whether you are good or bad. The issue is your aviation industry has repeatedly failed in ventures which are ill thought out and unrealsitic. Your Government /Policy makers create a hype about indegenous fighters and what nots when you cannot produce them. I am afraid that realistically you wont be able to manufacture the rafale in house and this is not being sarcastic. You have previously had problems with the MKIsand production rates have been very slow. Mind you it is a behemoth and a complicated beast.
4..When it comes to national interests all the powers in the world will do the same. The russians while they had their interests coinciding with your like the chinese with ours will help you but now that they are not as friendly as before they have shown their teeth as well. So in short it is a dog eat dog world and interests come before values. the french are the worst when it comes to making money and they will fleece you on spares as they dids us. Look at how much upgrades of the M2ks is costing youas compared to the MLUkit we are getting.
5 All that I meant is stop derailing threads and making it a F16 vs MKI thread. This gets boring.
Regards
Araz

This discussion is pathetic. I do not think we can take it serious.

Munir.
It has been a constant theme of a thread being derailed. I think we should discipline ourselves and not answer trolls.
Araz

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Please remind us whose bison's are falling out of the sky? Whose limping combat aircraft has an American engine, even then is no where closer to production? Whose aircraft parked in the tropical sun had their electronics frying?

The fundamental reason indians come to this forum, is to belittle and abuse a country 1/5th their size, whose existence boils them to the core, and it's capabilities gives them sleepless nights; to say the least!

--
nice joke...
world knows who is confused since existence and more scared for there future ...
some nation only live in cyndrell dreams .. and run on alms of other nation

Sir Persuit of happiness.
Firstly My language as it seems to have erked you. The jibe towards fingers was in gest as I have been accused of not writing/misspelling words as I mostly type on my PDA which is small and my fingers do not go the right way mostly. No insult meant. The rest I stand by as you are repeatedly asking the same question which has been answered repeatedly not only by me but also by other members. I am a lot older than most posters here ans it irritates me how threads are diverted by people asking questions which have been answered many a times before.
Now to points raised.
1.You have not understood the ethos behind JFT.It was never meant totake on the role of F16s. It was always a small work horse fighter.For the hiprofile we wouls always have looked elsewhere.
2. And you procure a Delta with Canards for mid level support. Please read the profile where a delta works best. Your LCA is nowhere in sight due to mismanagement of your aviation experts biting off more than they could chew. Look at it objectively-- you have not inducted a fighter and you are on to block two. This is unheard of. It has not complied with your Airforces need which is why you want ot make it better but the problem is by the time it comes on it would have lost its efficacy due to the time elapsed and requirements would have moved on. Which is why the search for planes to replace the migs is so urgent.
I want to commiserate with you over the loss of your airman. No one deserves to loose a brave soldier unnecessary and it is lamentable. But understand why we are replacing the 7Ps as quickly as we can.
3..The problem is not whether you are good or bad. The issue is your aviation industry has repeatedly failed in ventures which are ill thought out and unrealsitic. Your Government /Policy makers create a hype about indegenous fighters and what nots when you cannot produce them. I am afraid that realistically you wont be able to manufacture the rafale in house and this is not being sarcastic. You have previously had problems with the MKIsand production rates have been very slow. Mind you it is a behemoth and a complicated beast.
4..When it comes to national interests all the powers in the world will do the same. The russians while they had their interests coinciding with your like the chinese with ours will help you but now that they are not as friendly as before they have shown their teeth as well. So in short it is a dog eat dog world and interests come before values. the french are the worst when it comes to making money and they will fleece you on spares as they dids us. Look at how much upgrades of the M2ks is costing youas compared to the MLUkit we are getting.
5 All that I meant is stop derailing threads and making it a F16 vs MKI thread. This gets boring.
Regards
Araz


Munir.
It has been a constant theme of a thread being derailed. I think we should discipline ourselves and not answer trolls.
Araz

--

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Sir Persuit of happiness.
Firstly My language as it seems to have erked you. The jibe towards fingers was in gest as I have been accused of not writing/misspelling words as I mostly type on my PDA which is small and my fingers do not go the right way mostly. No insult meant. The rest I stand by as you are repeatedly asking the same question which has been answered repeatedly not only by me but also by other members. I am a lot older than most posters here ans it irritates me how threads are diverted by people asking questions which have been answered many a times before.
Now to points raised.
1.You have not understood the ethos behind JFT.It was never meant totake on the role of F16s. It was always a small work horse fighter.For the hiprofile we wouls always have looked elsewhere.
2. And you procure a Delta with Canards for mid level support. Please read the profile where a delta works best. Your LCA is nowhere in sight due to mismanagement of your aviation experts biting off more than they could chew. Look at it objectively-- you have not inducted a fighter and you are on to block two. This is unheard of. It has not complied with your Airforces need which is why you want ot make it better but the problem is by the time it comes on it would have lost its efficacy due to the time elapsed and requirements would have moved on. Which is why the search for planes to replace the migs is so urgent.
I want to commiserate with you over the loss of your airman. No one deserves to loose a brave soldier unnecessary and it is lamentable. But understand why we are replacing the 7Ps as quickly as we can.
3..The problem is not whether you are good or bad. The issue is your aviation industry has repeatedly failed in ventures which are ill thought out and unrealsitic. Your Government /Policy makers create a hype about indegenous fighters and what nots when you cannot produce them. I am afraid that realistically you wont be able to manufacture the rafale in house and this is not being sarcastic. You have previously had problems with the MKIsand production rates have been very slow. Mind you it is a behemoth and a complicated beast.
4..When it comes to national interests all the powers in the world will do the same. The russians while they had their interests coinciding with your like the chinese with ours will help you but now that they are not as friendly as before they have shown their teeth as well. So in short it is a dog eat dog world and interests come before values. the french are the worst when it comes to making money and they will fleece you on spares as they dids us. Look at how much upgrades of the M2ks is costing youas compared to the MLUkit we are getting.
5 All that I meant is stop derailing threads and making it a F16 vs MKI thread. This gets boring.
Regards
Araz


Munir.
It has been a constant theme of a thread being derailed. I think we should discipline ourselves and not answer trolls.
Araz

--
i can understand as veteran you must have repeated same question and answers many time
i am new so its new for me but still you are right ..
my spelling issue because i am working on many thing same time so it happens but will avoid it ... if possible get new pda or 5 inch smart phne
i dont want to make vs mki thread my obj was to understand current addition of f16 vis a vis iaf
rest
indian defense psu are lazy but not incompetent .. private sector is catching up
dont make LCA project as yardstick for indian manufacturing .
LCA flip flop more on policy level then on shop floor.
rest i agree national inerst of nation come before anything in world scenario..
russia china pa k india uas all for their own good if not others bad ..
if you guys think i am trolling will stop commenting now onwars in this thread
thanks

 

[slapshot]

@Aeronaut this thread is continuously being derailed so please take appropriate actions