Buying and upgrading old F-16 - Are they worth it?

[Luftwaffe]

Why you Pakistanis getting so defensive about debate on legacy f16 all of a sudden.

But to claim dominate and whip your *** and you dont know how to exploit your assets or deploy them is utter garbage fanboy stuff.

The threats of bans and derailing threads is ridiculous and childish.

Its a debate for gods sake

Against IAF very much they will whip the arses with AMRAAMs and great maneuverability against vintage Mig-21s, Fulcrums, Jaguars, Mirages, Mig-27s so think before you speak there are alot of legacy and vintage inventory in IAF our F-16s are superior to Types, lets consider it vis-à-vis with IAF specific...

Look up the Thread topic stick to it and don't bring in IAF you and IAF fanbois are derailing it, do not reply to me.

 

[Munir]

Why you Pakistanis getting so defensive about debate on legacy f16 all of a sudden.

We acknowrdge their great history and record .

But there is s reason why they are being repllaced by NATO and other air forces. Or available for such little cost.

They are a useful asset to pak aitforcre I understand this. Both in dog fighting and mlued bvr .

But to claim dominate and whip your *** and you dont know how to exploit your assets or deploy them is utter garbage fanboy stuff.

Kargil the iaf deployed and exploited well enough.

Didn't see any F16.

The threats of bans and derailing threads is ridiculous and childish.

Its a debate for gods sake

Funny post... Those nations came back from having huge and expensive airforces to smaller ones. Take Belgium and Holland as an example. It is not that they do not like their F16's and sell them to Jordan but to the fact that they cannot afford them. And about little cost?Fo you know the price back then of an F16A/B and what it costs to get the same one now? Or how do you explain Poland getting block52?

There are so many stupid parts in your posts but the one with being english and based in UK is just showing your true lying nature.

 

[Last Samuri]

Great to see your new found confidence in usa hardware again

I just hope they the USA dont let you down with spares and support when you most need them.

I don't trust them. And I know the indian military defo doesn't trust them.

Cs.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Obviously either the manufacturer or current users.

Why are you so worried?

--
i am not worried for f16...
just query...
manufacture can sell f16 without US approval ?
which are countries who are in process to give up f16 ?
what happened if US denied any upgrade or major overhaul in near future?
as JF 17 came in also as one of reason to be less dependent on USA ?
so where PAF is heading in terms of policy ?

 

[Luftwaffe]

--
i am not worried for f16...
just query...manufacture can sell f16 without US approval ? which are countries who are in process to give up f16 ? what happened if US denied any upgrade or major overhaul in near future? as JF 17 came in also as one of reason to be less dependent on USA ? so where PAF is heading in terms of policy ?

US learned A lesson, it brings in money to their Defense Industry they won't want to lose it. US is going to make alot of money in next 15 years with upgrades of F-16s to various Air Forces operating F-16s.

Manufacturer can't sell F-16s without US Congress approval. Until F-35s are not delivered most F-16 operators who ordered F-35s would not let go F-16s and some would put their Vipers for sales once delivery of Lightning II starts.

Lets ask question if LCA are in development why Rafale is being suggested, Every Air Force have different requirements. [Just giving an example...I won't be discussing iaf not should anyone else]

 

[pursuit of happiness]

US learned A lesson, it brings in money to their Defense Industry they won't want to lose it. US is going to make alot of money in next 15 years with upgrades of F-16s to various Air Forces operating F-16s.

Manufacturer can't sell F-16s without US Congress approval. Until F-35s are not delivered most F-16 operators who ordered F-35s would not let go F-16s and some would put their Vipers for sales once delivery of Lightning II starts.

Lets ask question if LCA are in development why Rafale is being suggested, Every Air Force have different requirements. [Just giving an example...I won't be discussing iaf not should anyone else]

--
thanks
yes.. but..
how much money US can earn from upgrades..
india give more orders/money for USA hardware..
looking at USA-PAK relation will they arm with thier one of best machines ..
even india with forward looking govt .will not pressure USA to avoid more F16..
even old f16 is dark horse ...
yes every AF different so the different aircraft and plan..
my point is ,
USA is non reliable ally at least in defense..
india can vouch russia but pAk for usa may be ..
when india -usa is getting closer and india
in that scenario how much wise it is .to rely on usa/f16
miliratily it may be wise but politically and strategically ?

 

[Munir]

I think the Jordanian F16's bring the cheapest block52 into PAF. IF you can get a bargain like that there is not alternattive.

On the other hand it gives JF17 program some more time to mature. At the moment we have to upgrade 50 JF17 's to block 2. We are going to produce another 50 next 2 years. By getting another squadron F16's (which are known planes for us and we have engineer/pilots ready) we can remove older planes like F7P faster and giving block 3 some more time to improve. While block 2 is like block 42 F16... Block 3 is going to be more in the line of Gripen NG. Look at how long SAAB took to get there. We cannot do that in two years and still produce batches of block 2.

Mr pursuit of h asks whether it is limiting. Well, what is not limiting besides an inhouse plane? Just ask Indian Airforce how it is to not have own plane... The difference is PAF is extremely focussed on JF17 while LCA is something special.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

I think the Jordanian F16's bring the cheapest block52 into PAF. IF you can get a bargain like that there is not alternattive.

On the other hand it gives JF17 program some more time to mature. At the moment we have to upgrade 50 JF17 's to block 2. We are going to produce another 50 next 2 years. By getting another squadron F16's (which are known planes for us and we have engineer/pilots ready) we can remove older planes like F7P faster and giving block 3 some more time to improve. While block 2 is like block 42 F16... Block 3 is going to be more in the line of Gripen NG. Look at how long SAAB took to get there. We cannot do that in two years and still produce batches of block 2.

Mr pursuit of h asks whether it is limiting. Well, what is not limiting besides an inhouse plane? Just ask Indian Airforce how it is to not have own plane... The difference is PAF is extremely focussed on JF17 while LCA is something special.

--
having own plan is always g8..
jf17 or LCA is gems for each AF
my question is ... as i already said..
PAF buying becasue its cheap .. but it will be dangerous because its from your unstable ally - USA...

 

[Windjammer]

Aeronaut
F-16s *will* dominate adversery's 4th generation fleet along with a well evolved JFT fleet. PAF is all in a mood to raise it along the lines of the Gripen program

That is a seriously ambitious statement.

I admire the F16 brilliant war plane and 100 of these in PAF would have detroyed the IAF in 1999
Unforunately the PAF are acquiring the F16 at a time when many F16 user nations are scrapping there older block falcons
The F16 earlier blocks is being replace by Typhoon Rafale Gripen & F35 accros the globe.

You guys are picking these older falcons in a era where they will have to fight more modern

su30mki brand new
Mirage2000-5 upgraded
Mig29k navy

And possiblly Rafale F3

Outnumbered and inferior awacs and satalite support.

I,M JUST NOT CONVINCED YOU CAN DOMINATE. with fleet of vintage F16s

The indian fighters are newer than the bulk of the PAF F16 FLEET

Ignoring all else, apart from pending F-35, care to point out which country has replaced it's F-16s with all the others you have mentioned, outside the consortium, apart from Saudi Arabia and Austria, which other country has purchased the Typhoon, in any case none of the Typhoon operators had F-16s in their inventory same thing goes for Gripen and as for Rafale, pending India, there's no even been a foreign launch customer for the French aircraft.
Bottom line is that PAF over the last 30 years have mastered the F-16 to it's best potential. An aircraft with a phenomenal combat and safety record, it no doubt strikes the balance in the region.
@gambit, your input sir will be valuable.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Ignoring all else, apart from pending F-35, care to point out which country has replaced it's F-16s with all the others you have mentioned, outside the consortium, apart from Saudi Arabia and Austria, which other country has purchased the Typhoon, in any case none of the Typhoon operators had F-16s in their inventory same thing goes for Gripen and as for Rafale, pending India, there's no even been a foreign launch customer for the French aircraft.
Bottom line is that PAF over the last 30 years have mastered the F-16 to it's best potential. An aircraft with a phenomenal combat and safety record, it no doubt strikes the balance in the region.

--
f16 is g8 AC ..
but paf objective to deny any advantage to IAF..
looking Su30mki , mirage, mig -29 , and rafael i near future..
how can f16 will balance if not out perform to deny any advantage against these AC .
f16 can only data lin with eyeir ..and not with zdk
what are the bvr/wver option paf have with f16
most of hardawar of paf is Chinese ..
so f16 though potent but limits it use and performance

 

[Arsalan]

--
f16 is g8 AC ..
but paf objective to deny any advantage to IAF..
looking Su30mki , mirage, mig -29 , and rafael i near future..
how can f16 will balance if not out perform to deny any advantage against these AC .
f16 can only data lin with eyeir ..and not with zdk
what are the bvr/wver option paf have with f16
most of hardawar of paf is Chinese ..
so f16 though potent but limits it use and performance

With this latest acquisition of 13 from Jordan, the total number of F-16 in PAF inventory MOVES UP TO 75 appx, a mix of Blk-52, and MLU F-16s. This is not a small number by any means and the F-16 in PAF will be a force to reckon with considering the expertise PAF have on F-16 with all those years of operating this bird.
The main BVRAAM that PAF is using with F-16 is AIM-120C and i do not think there is any thing required to said to tell you how mature and potent this missile system is. Perhaps the most reliable BVRAAM in the world at this point of time.
I do not want to go into this vs that but i do not think that the Mirage and Mig along with Su-30 is a problem that F-16 CANNOT handle! The aricraft mission profile and specs tell us that i can do this job very well

 

[Windjammer]

--
f16 is g8 AC ..
but paf objective to deny any advantage to IAF..
looking Su30mki , mirage, mig -29 , and rafael i near future..
how can f16 will balance if not out perform to deny any advantage against these AC .
f16 can only data lin with eyeir ..and not with zdk
what are the bvr/wver option paf have with f16
most of hardawar of paf is Chinese ..
so f16 though potent but limits it use and performance

Don't just look at the designation of an aircraft but look into it's track record, combat performance and experience.
Albeit the Indian inventory is top of the line but one could argue what performance or history have these aircraft to show for themselves. As for bvr, it's got one of the best option , as for WVR, in PAF hands, the F-16 has repeatedly beaten the likes of Eurofighter Typhoon and F-15 Eagles......on the contrary, the Typhoon has easily outclassed the MKIs.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

With this latest acquisition of 13 from Jordan, the total number of F-16 in PAF inventory MOVES UP TO 75 appx, a mix of Blk-52, and MLU F-16s. This is not a small number by any means and the F-16 in PAF will be a force to reckon with considering the expertise PAF have on F-16 with all those years of operating this bird.
The main BVRAAM that PAF is using with F-16 is AIM-120C and i do not think there is any thing required to said to tell you how mature and potent this missile system is. Perhaps the most reliable BVRAAM in the world at this point of time.
I do not want to go into this vs that but i do not think that the Mirage and Mig along with Su-30 is a problem that F-16 CANNOT handle! The aricraft mission profile and specs tell us that i can do this job very well

--
yes f16 in trained hands is lethal ..
my point is simple .. dont put all eggs in one basket..
if IAF beat f16 then paf will crumble same goes for IAF's Su30 .. but IAF backing up with rafael in near future ..
as jf17 cant match other iaf platforms .
vs point is required as till you dont put these machine one on one no point talking..
AIM 120 C is g8 yes ..
but again point is only one.. so its limit pilots option in operational ability and tactics..
same case..
IAF getting more variety ..so more operational and tactial option
JF give you variety to operate
summary is ,
f16 is g8 . wil strengthen paf but is alone can deter iaf ?

 

[Last Samuri]

Jordsnisn f16 are not block 52 they are the much older block 15/20...

Block 52 are very modern and far more expensive and a match even for the 200 Su30mki that iaf field today

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Don't just look at the designation of an aircraft but look into it's track record, combat performance and experience.
Albeit the Indian inventory is top of the line but one could argue what performance or history have these aircraft to show for themselves. As for bvr, it's got one of the best option , as for WVR, in PAF hands, the F-16 has repeatedly beaten the likes of Eurofighter Typhoon and F-15 Eagles......on the contrary, the Typhoon has easily outclassed the MKIs.

--
dear ..
if you say me f16 better than Rafael /typhon/ f15 ... fine i dont want to argue.. as you may have more info than me .. but i dont agree.