Buying and upgrading old F-16 - Are they worth it?

[Secur]

Didn't see any F16.

Yes , of course you didn't see any F16's in Kargil , for a good enough reason . Pakistan didn't wish to escalate the conflict further and the second , they didn't have Beyond Visual Range capability . The same isn't true now , the last two near-engagements proved it afterwards .

india give more orders/money for USA hardware..

The Americans do not seem to care , they will sell to both countries and earn money . You have been buying hardware from Washington D.C. from a long time now , has it stopped them from selling to Islamabad ? Hell , that isn't true even for Russians who supply weapons/systems to Pakistan through different means . The point was ?

I,M JUST NOT CONVINCED YOU CAN DOMINATE. with fleet of vintage F16s

Please , explain me or merely list the disadvantages of the ' vintage ' F16's except for the relatively less life left in them . What exactly are they hampered by ?

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Yes , of course you didn't see any F16's in Kargil , for a good enough reason . Pakistan didn't wish to escalate the conflict further and the second , they didn't have Beyond Visual Range capability . The same isn't true now , the last two near-engagements proved it afterwards .



The Americans do not seem to care , they will sell to both countries and earn money . You have been buying hardware from Washington D.C. from a long time now , has it stopped them from selling to Islamabad ? Hell , that isn't true even for Russians who supply weapons/systems to Pakistan through different means . The point was ?



Please , explain me or merely list the disadvantages of the ' vintage ' F16's except for the relatively less life left in them . What exactly are they hampered by ?

--
1.kargil
your argument are contradictory in kargil point
once you say .. you did not want escalate and then you say you didn't had bvr which iaf had..so paf was not in position to escalate SUCCESSFULLY ..
2.American hardware..
Americans have more stake economical , political,
as russian dont sell their prime hardware to pak.. though russia approved RD engine through china but not other.
american eager to sell their few primes to india f16in/c130
my point was reference to earlier comment by member who said usa will not loose pak because of india ..
but my point is usa care of its interest more with india than pak as they are leaving afg

 

[Storm Force]

F16 used or brand new are a GREAT ADDITION to the PAF.

Formidable adversary and a huge boost to PAF.

easily the best combat plane available to PAF and the one that IAF respects and fears the most.

"We salute your falcons"

But please dont get carried away with statements like we will dominate the IAF 4th generation fleet and we have already checkmated India,s rafale purchase.

These statements are not needed and may come back to haunt you one day.

 

[Secur]

--
1.kargil
your argument are contradictory in kargil point
once you say .. you did not want escalate and then you say you didn't had bvr which iaf had..so paf was not in position to escalate SUCCESSFULLY ..
2.American hardware..
Americans have more stake economical , political,
as russian dont sell their prime hardware to pak.. though russia approved RD engine through china but not other.
american eager to sell their few primes to india f16in/c130
my point was reference to earlier comment by member who said usa will not loose pak because of india ..
but my point is usa care of its interest more with india than pak as they are leaving afg

My argument isn't contradictory in any sense . Pakistan wasn't in a position to escalate because of various reasons - one of which was the BVR problem , a capability present on the other side of the border and absent with us .

That isn't the Americans , you are talking about . They will , I repeat , always sell to both sides and earn money , its good for the business you see , it creates competition . Just because Pakistan's economy is downhill , we have to buy the old hardware from different countries and look for upgrades . The same wouldn't have been the case if we were economically sound . Even though that is true that the Yanks are offering you the best military stuff , the C130/F16 IN hardly count as primes any longer . They may put you up on the priority list because of China's encirclement reasons , but no they wont degrade their relations with Islamabad significantly if I interpret your post right . Even post withdrawal , they need an ally to maintain peace and stability in Afghanistan . Abandonment isn't an option nor something practiced in International relations .

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Simple answer is yes. After USAF and others airforces get F35s they might sell those F16s to Pakistan. Just imagine PAF with 150 or 200 F16s with BVR capability. Also F16s wont be the fighter that will intercept Indian stealth jets. That will be the role for future stealth jets of PAF. With chinese stealth jets or jf17 stealth versions as interceptors and F16s as second line of defense. Engage them with jf17 stealth version and pin them from a distance with F16s. That would be more potent force. If my assessment is correct Pakistan will have atleast 150 F16s in their inventory. If you ask me they should get 300 or 350 but cash can be a problem. If anyone thinks that PAF wont be flying stealth jets they are mistaken. If my assessment is correct PAF wont let F16s face FGFA. That will be a job for a stealth jet. And if they have to face non-stealth jets then it should be shoot and scoot. Get Indian jets in BVR range, fire and then either go below radar or behind hills. No need to engage them in dogfights. If an engagement happens then its anyone's game. Thats what I would do

 

[OCguy]

Keep in mind, that just because someone like the US moves on from one weapons system to a more advance one, it does not mean that it is instantly obsolete on the world stage.

If today the US scrapped its B-2 fleet for a new LRB, the B-2s would still be far and ahead of anything else that is out there.

 

[Storm Force]

Secur.

USA will not abandon you granted.

But they will not back you in a war with india that is 100% guranteed.

You pakistanis would be shocked at how much influence rich powerful ameican citizens of indian origin have on washington. these days.

What it means the threat of sanctions on PAF is very real. NOT to help india BUT DEFO to bring peace and avoid escalation.

I can ensure you they wont be rushing in amraams and spares just before a war or heightened tension with india.

that has to be a small concern to PAF TOP BRASS surely

 

[NKVD]

Simple answer is yes. After USAF and others airforces get F35s they might sell those F16s to Pakistan. Just imagine PAF with 150 or 200 F16s with BVR capability. Also F16s wont be the fighter that will intercept Indian stealth jets. That will be the role for future stealth jets of PAF. With chinese stealth jets or jf17 stealth versions as interceptors and F16s as second line of defense. Engage them with jf17 stealth version and pin them from a distance with F16s. That would be more potent force. If my assessment is correct Pakistan will have atleast 150 F16s in their inventory. If you ask me they should get 300 or 350 but cash can be a problem. If anyone thinks that PAF wont be flying stealth jets they are mistaken. If my assessment is correct PAF wont let F16s face FGFA. That will be a job for a stealth jet. And if they have to face non-stealth jets then it should be shoot and scoot. Get Indian jets in BVR range, fire and then either go below radar or behind hills. No need to engage them in dogfights. If an engagement happens then its anyone's game. Thats what I would do

No By the time then Indian Economy will be so huge so is its Defence Budget .The numerical superiorty will Huge BTW IAF and PAF it will never be compared As Gap will be very vast than what you are see today.India will have both combination of East and West in his Inventory
Yes you can have j-31 depending on funds Ratio will be still very larger in that senario Also

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Keep in mind, that just because someone like the US moves on from one weapons system to a more advance one, it does not mean that it is instantly obsolete on the world stage.
If today the US scrapped its B-2 fleet for a new LRB, the B-2s would still be far and ahead of anything else that is out there.

I agree.

Secur.
USA will not abandon you granted.
But they will not back you in a war with india that is 100% guranteed.
You pakistanis would be shocked at how much influence rich powerful ameican citizens of indian origin have on washington. these days.
What it means the threat of sanctions on PAF is very real. NOT to help india BUT DEFO to bring peace and avoid escalation.
I can ensure you they wont be rushing in amraams and spares just before a war or heightened tension with india.
that has to be a small concern to PAF TOP BRASS surely

Been there done that kind of thing, Pakistan has seen sanctions before. Dont worry about it.

No By the time then Indian Economy will be so huge so is its Defence Budget .The numerical superiorty will Huge BTW IAF and PAF it will never be compared As Gap will be very vast than what you are see today.India will have both combination of East and West in his Inventory
Yes you can have j-31 depending on funds Ratio will be still very larger in that senario Also

You are counting your chickens before they have hatched.

 

[elitepilot09]

Secur.

USA will not abandon you granted.

But they will not back you in a war with india that is 100% guranteed.

You pakistanis would be shocked at how much influence rich powerful ameican citizens of indian origin have on washington. these days.

What it means the threat of sanctions on PAF is very real. NOT to help india BUT DEFO to bring peace and avoid escalation.

I can ensure you they wont be rushing in amraams and spares just before a war or heightened tension with india.

that has to be a small concern to PAF TOP BRASS surely

Man.... you Indians are so out of your own skin these days that apparently you have some secret public affairs committee just waiting to embargo Pakistan via Congress. In the event of a war, the US would place sanctions on both India and Pakistan as they have in the past. The only circumstance in which they wouldn't embargo Pakistan would be if India launched an offensive.

Any 5 year old can "ensure" what you've stated... it's the blatant obvious.

 

[Kompromat]

Enough debate has taken place on this topic.

Those who really want to study this subject beyong jingoism should look into the 'actual combat' record of the F-16s, AIM-120C and AIM-9 Sidewinders. Compare it to the 'actual combat record' of the Flankers and its weapons package.MKI's RedFlag record is also to be noted. Truth will reveal itself.