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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

Without the Block 52s and MLU F-16s, Pakistan won't have the lead in the region in BVR technology.
AIM-120C is better than the BVR missiles India uses. Without those, our chances are minimized.

JF-17 is getting mature so is J-10B. It will take time for them to be as capable as the F-16 and get better variants of SD-10 and better BVR capability. We cannot wait for that day to come, likely to be after three years. F-16s are essential. 14 more F-16Cs are heading to Pakistan in December 2012 making the total Block 52s to be around 50. (18+18+

With these and MLU updates, PAF gets a might over Su-30s in BVR technology and would allow more time for JF-17 and J-10B to get mature and enter service in large numbers, including setting up two other production lines of JF-17 as planned.

Last Hope in all due respect bro do you have any valid proof or source for the extra 14 blk 52's coming our way in dec 2012? and how is it 18+18 ? when we have only gotten 18 there is no actual proof of us having all 36 only rumors?
 
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Last Hope in all due respect bro do you have any valid proof or source for the extra 14 blk 52's coming our way in dec 2012? and how is it 18+18 ? when we have only gotten 18 there is no actual proof of us having all 36 only rumors?

TOPGUN.

Sir, you are one of the most reputed member on the forum. I hope you do understand.
There are multiple independent sources including journalists who have been to Shahbaz Airbase and officers from Shahbaz Airbase who have been confirming this, though the mystery remains on why PAF is refusing to accept or deny the claims. I was told by a ground personnel about 36 Block 52+ of which 18 were delivered in late January.

About the 14 F-16Cs, I posted it from a source but apparently Oscar deleted my post. A highly senior member of the forum (I will not quote him) told me privately about PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs and I found a news of 27 March stating PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs.

So in short, all the pieces of puzzle show the same picture, 50 Block 52+ by the start of 2013 but it is just a assumption hanging on a piece of thread. I know I should believe this because I strongly trust my sources, who are stationed alongst the Block 52+.

:)

[EDIT: Correction. The new about 14 F-16s to arrive Pakistan by the end of this year, was messed up by the reporter or the person who wrote the article. Those are supposed to be the 14 F-16s built for Pakistan but given to USN. Thank you. Sorry for the dilemma.]
 
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TOPGUN.

Sir, you are one of the most reputed member on the forum. I hope you do understand.
There are multiple independent sources including journalists who have been to Shahbaz Airbase and officers from Shahbaz Airbase who have been confirming this, though the mystery remains on why PAF is refusing to accept or deny the claims. I was told by a ground personnel about 36 Block 52+ of which 18 were delivered in late January.

About the 14 F-16Cs, I posted it from a source but apparently Oscar deleted my post. A highly senior member of the forum (I will not quote him) told me privately about PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs and I found a news of 27 March stating PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs.

So in short, all the pieces of puzzle show the same picture, 50 Block 52+ by the start of 2013 but it is just a assumption hanging on a piece of thread. I know I should believe this because I strongly trust my sources, who are stationed alongst the Block 52+.

:)
the news which you are posting about 14 more f-16s is 2 years old and to be delivered by the end of 2010 not by the end of 2012
 
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TOPGUN.

Sir, you are one of the most reputed member on the forum. I hope you do understand.
There are multiple independent sources including journalists who have been to Shahbaz Airbase and officers from Shahbaz Airbase who have been confirming this, though the mystery remains on why PAF is refusing to accept or deny the claims. I was told by a ground personnel about 36 Block 52+ of which 18 were delivered in late January.

About the 14 F-16Cs, I posted it from a source but apparently Oscar deleted my post. A highly senior member of the forum (I will not quote him) told me privately about PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs and I found a news of 27 March stating PAF ordering 14 F-16Cs.

So in short, all the pieces of puzzle show the same picture, 50 Block 52+ by the start of 2013 but it is just a assumption hanging on a piece of thread. I know I should believe this because I strongly trust my sources, who are stationed alongst the Block 52+.

:)


Last Hope brother thx for kind words... and i know what you mean i guess we will just have to wait and see what's under the hat and what more will come to the hat :P thx again for repling good job.
 
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TOPGUN.


So in short, all the pieces of puzzle show the same picture, 50 Block 52+ by the start of 2013 but it is just a assumption hanging on a piece of thread. I know I should believe this because I strongly trust my sources, who are stationed alongst the Block 52+.

:)

You are confusing multiple reports of the same event due to varying timelines.
There are still 14 F-16's that are owed by the US to Pakistan.. Since the original 14 have been at the US naval air warfare centre at Fallon and deemed unacceptable by us.
It was the PAF's request that these numbers be made up by EDA F-16C models instead of F-16A's mothballed at AMARC.
The United States has on paper agreed to transfer this number but which birds, what block.. and when is still under negotiation and waiting approval. New build Block-52's are out of the question as they are expensive and neither us or the USG is willing to pay for it.
The news you posted.. is all a repeat of this very transfer that is left to be made which is being reported by various sources as and when they hear it.
I can offer you my source's credentials.. but on PM only.
 
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Regarding Procurement of Peace Gate III/IV F-16s block 15OCU

Peace Gate I F-16A Block-15 = 2 (Delivered)
Peace Gate I F-16B Block-15 = 4 (Delivered)
Peace Gate II F-16A Block-15 = 26 (Delivered)
Peace Gate II F-16B Block-15 = 8 (Delivered)
Peace Gate III/IV F-16A block 15OCU = 13 (Embargoed)
Peace Gate III/IV F-16B block 15OCU = 15 (Embargoed)

In total 28 paid-for aircrafts were undelivered after the embargo of early 1990s, Pakistan had already paid $685 million for these aircrafts.
We got back 14 of these Peace Gate III/IV F-16s block 15OCU

They were never deemed unworthy or unfit for induction by PAF nor by anyone else for that matter; rather Pakistan always argued that it is completely unfair on part of US to not make the delivery.
they were put in 'Flyable Hold' for 5 years, during which time 85% of each aircraft's fuel system was preserved with JP-9, and each aircraft had its engine run once every 45 days. The Airframe remained in almost mint condition, Airframe only aged 6 hours. This low air-time figure, plus the fact that these aircraft are the most modern F-16A/B's built, is the main reason why countries interested in second-hand F-16s first look at the Pakistani airframes. That is why in March 96 US sold these aircrafts to Indonesia and later in 1998 to New Zealand – but lucky for us the sales did not go through.

When the deal for new block 52+ was made in Sept 30/06 the USA also agreed to deliver 26 of the “Peace Gate III/IV” F-16A/B Block 15OCUs that had been ordered in 1988-1989. After the embargo, the planes had been diverted for use as aggressor combat training aircraft by USAF and the US Navy. That was done in 2002 when US stopped trying to sell these aircrafts to other countries.

In 2006 deal Pakistan had requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits, why 60?
Remember till 2006 when this deal was reached PAF had lost 8 of its F-16s out of total 40 PG I/II aircrafts, so PAF was left with 32 at the time of new deal, 28 were our Embargoed F-16 still with US (USAF and US Navy) so it was understood plain and simple that 60 MLU kit = for 32 F-16 Block 15 PGI/II + 28 F-16 block 15OCU PG III/IV . To my understanding Pakistan wasn’t paying upfront for an engraved on a stone 60 MLU kits rather payments made in batches, but deal was with an understanding of up to 60 kits/upgrades.

InsideDefense.com made an interesting observation that Pakistan doesn’t have 60 F-16s to upgrade. The clear implication is that the Pakistani government is interested in buying either used F-16s and upgrading them or Pakistan will be receiving the undelivered F-16 block 15 from Peace Gate III/IV and then upgrade them.

Later these Aircrafts – by the efforts of Gen Musharraf and Air Chief Tanveer Ahmed - were declared Excess Defence Articles[*] by US. And thus PAF initially got 14 of our 28 embargoed F-16 Back with a MLU kit ready for the upgrade in process.

[*]The Defense Security Cooperation Agency is responsible for administering the Department of Defense's Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program. Working under authorities established in the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 and the Arms Export Control Act, defense articles declared as excess by the Military Departments can be offered to foreign governments or international organizations in support of U. S. national security and foreign policy objectives. Typically, EDA is transferred to support U. S. allies in their modernization efforts

Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Ahmed

“More recently we got some of these aeroplanes (F-16 block 15OCU - Peace Gate III/IV), after 9/11 I continued to insist on the US Air Chief that I need these aeroplanes, they are my aircrafts, they were built for us and we have a sentimental attachment with them. Of course they were very sparingly used so I want them back. So he was very kind, he agreed and finally these aircrafts were declared Excess Defence Articles and we almost got them for nothing. These 14 aircrafts – 12 are in our country, 2 are with Lockheed Martin for upgrade, the 14 (remaining) aircrafts that are with US Navy they are my aircrafts with them, I continue to claim them, I am sure one day we will be able to get them too.“

First 1 min 12 secs on the Peace Gate III/IV F-16s

Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed Interview - September 7, 2008 - YouTube

Content references:
Pakistan In Line for Massive Arms Deal
$5.1B Proposed Sales, Upgrades, Weapons Pakistan’s F-16s
http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/PAF/
Asia Times Online :: South Asia news - Pakistan heading for a crackdown
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html
http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/
 
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527232_421679331182473_172807719402970_1914215_1865867665_n.jpg


Please "like", if u have seen this pic first time :)
 
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Hi,

This seems to be old video.

Yep its an old video - just wanted to put in one place on what has happened regarding our old F-16 Block 15s Delivered and Embargoed, the MLUs, how many of Peace Gate III/IV F-16s we can confirm that we got back till now. and the understanding of buying 60 MLUs was with an idea that we gono get all our Embargoed F-16s back, 14 we got, rest we will keep our fingers crossed. the 14 left with US Navy have not been declared EDA by US yet i think...

these embargoed F-16 were latest Block 15 made at that time, had very little flying hours done, engines were run once every 45 days. Air frames were in almost mint condition , So the argument by some guys here that Pakistan deemed these block 15s unacceptable in my opinion seems wrong.

cheers.
 
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paf+f16+block52%252B.jpg


PAF F-16C 10904 entered service on November 20, 2010.

Brother, let me clarify for you. The picture above you posted#10904 at Lajes Field, Azores, Portugal is already delivered to Pakistan. :P

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/view_airframes_bysearch/key/PAF/actype/F-16/startnum/121

Delivery of Seventeen F-16C/D Block 52 to Pakistan was made in four batches:

First batch of three Block-52 F-16s delivered to Pakistan on June 26, 2010 were:
1 x single-seater F-16C (aircraft serial# 10902)
2 x two-seater F-16D (aircraft serial# 10804 and 10805)

Second batch of three Block-52 F-16s delivered to Pakistan on October 30, 2010 were:
2 x single-seater F-16C (aircraft serial# 10905 and 10906)
1 x two-seater F-16D (aircraft serial# 10806)

Third batch of six Block-52 F-16s delivered to Pakistan on November 20, 2010 were:
5 x single-seater F-16C (aircraft serial# 10904, 10907, 10908, 10909 and 10910)
1 x two-seater F-16D (aircraft serial# 10803)

Fourth batch of five Block-52 F-16s delivered to Pakistan on December 13, 2010 were:
4 x single-seater F-16C (aircraft serial# 10901, 10903, 10911 and 10912)
1 x two-seater F-16D (aircraft serial# 10802)


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PAF F-16C block 52 #10904 is seen just after landing at Lajes Field, Azores during a stopover before delivery to Pakistan on November 16th, 2010.
 
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Raptor, what do you mean?
I clearly mentioned that it has entered services in PAF on November 20th, 2010.

It was just the beauty of the newly built bird that I was posting.
 
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well they were in good condition till 2002 after that they went into the aggressor unit..
also reports were there that US navy wasnt ready to release those F-16s
 
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