Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[TOPGUN]

They should leave J-10 and go for J-11 that would really boost our power in Air. And if the American put J-11 on 4th best fighter in the world and are **** scared of it there must be a reason.

I agree with you sir totally on the j-11's i have said this here before many times but i dont know why we wont try to get them perhaps cuz of the russians it would be a great boost to PAF sir do we know if our pilots have flown it before ??

 

[Zob]

well now that we are BACK TO DISCUSSING J-11s...i guess price is also an issue let alone the fact that the chinese can't sell it due to the russian/indian problem....if we are getting our JF-17s on a soft loan then i guess J11s must be so highly priced that we can only dream about them....

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I believe that a lot depends upon how the sale of the JF 17 to other nations would go forward. Once the orders start coming in---then I believe that the russian stance towards pakistan may soften up.

Second issue is the indian decision about mrca---which country they are going to sign up with---thirdly---it then all boils down to, is the chinese engine---which is the most important part of the purchase.

Even though paf have operated twin engine aircraft---like the A5's---but then there is nothing like the twin engine twin tails strike aircraft sitting on the tarmac or flying in the air---a massive morale booster for the pilot as well as the public.

PAF's decision to dump the F 16 blk 52 ( keeping a minimum ) and go forward with the FC20 must have been an un-nerving decision decision for many---but at least the paf has chosen a firm path that it is headed towards---now it shows a focus and a sense of direction that is being taken for the future of PAF.

That is what the public wants. Give us hope---show us some thing to hold onto---do something that we can hold our head high---the air force pilots and the pakistani public has been far too long living under the umbrella of depressing news.

 

[araz]

I think the Indians are in a bit of a pickle. They want the American tech, but dont trust or rely on them. They want to keep the Russians as their main suppliers but dont have the nerve to say, we wont buy your planes either. No wonder MRCA is taking its time materializing!!!
MuradK saheb has again set a cat amongst the pigeons by forwarding the idea of J11. It is an interesting proposition. Adding to Munir,s post another factor which might help PAF is the commonality of the WS10/ AL31FN/FN3 for FC20 and j11. I would however, go for the twinseater, as i think the J11 is a bit labour intensive.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Araz,

What Muradk has done, is thrown a big big monkey wrench in the gears---if and when PAF goes for the J 11's---nothing that india can get from any country in the world that would give IAF the same edge it has over PAF as of today---F 18, F 16 in, Rafael, eurofighter or any other machine---keeping in view that they will not get the F 22.

Our concerns of what india may have or may not have will be over for awhile. It will give us breathing room and will allow us time to settle down and put more focus on where we are headed. There is too much turmoil and un-predictability at this moment in our house---let this un-predictability go some other place.

Also keeping in mind the indian elections---which party comes to power will also be a major deciding factor on who gets the order for mrca.

You are right---twin seaters are a must for today's warfare---the commonality of the engines between the FC 20 and the J 11 will also act as a force multiplier----which means---similiar power plant---resulting in better trained technicians---lesser down time for the maintenance of the machine.

 

[Arsalan]

sorry to repeat the same info again but it is well in your notice that the J11 is just a LICIENCED COPY of russiann Su27 so how come we get it from china as there will be russian influencing this deal!
on part of russai the RD engine is something else and selling a high tech aircraft which its close and one of the largest customer of arms and ammunition (india) is currently operationg is a completely diferent thing!
this though is a good option but is necer going to materialize!!

also on chines part they may well be more intrested in selling there very own J10 or FC20 rather that the J11 which is, again, just a russian plane,s licienced production!!

i hope it helps,

regards!

 

[Muradk]

sorry to repeat the same info again but it is well in your notice that the J11 is just a LICIENCED COPY of russiann Su27 so how come we get it from china as there will be russian influencing this deal!
on part of russai the RD engine is something else and selling a high tech aircraft which its close and one of the largest customer of arms and ammunition (india) is currently operationg is a completely diferent thing!
this though is a good option but is necer going to materialize!!

also on chines part they may well be more intrested in selling there very own J10 or FC20 rather that the J11 which is, again, just a russian plane,s licienced production!!

i hope it helps,

regards!

Chinese our best friends didn't even let our pilots go close to J-10 till we said ok we will buy then we asked them to give us a few J-10 they said no , yes our pilots have flown J-11 lets see what the outcome will be. Someone on this forum must be close to Zardari just tell him on J-11 he will get more commission thats it. On the F-16 side we just need to keep our fingers crossed

 

[fatman17]

I think the Indians are in a bit of a pickle. They want the American tech, but dont trust or rely on them. They want to keep the Russians as their main suppliers but dont have the nerve to say, we wont buy your planes either. No wonder MRCA is taking its time materializing!!!
MuradK saheb has again set a cat amongst the pigeons by forwarding the idea of J11. It is an interesting proposition. Adding to Munir,s post another factor which might help PAF is the commonality of the WS10/ AL31FN/FN3 for FC20 and j11. I would however, go for the twinseater, as i think the J11 is a bit labour intensive.
WaSalam
Araz

i think the indians are playing their cards well - they want the best of both worlds, and they have the money to bandy about! so IMHO they are not in a pickle!

 

[IceCold]

Chinese our best friends didn't even let our pilots go close to J-10 till we said ok we will buy then we asked them to give us a few J-10 they said no , yes our pilots have flown J-11 lets see what the outcome will be. Someone on this forum must be close to Zardari just tell him on J-11 he will get more commission thats it. On the F-16 side we just need to keep our fingers crossed

Sir is it same to assume that we should now look towards an option another then Chinese and therefore do not commit the same mistake we did back then when we relied solely on the US for our defense equipment.
Like we say in urdu apna baal khud dorsa ka haath main pakrai

 

[pakpower]

So there is a very hot and interesting discussin going on the J-11 wether we buy them or not, or will Russia and India allow this to happened.

Well what they say in Urdu "Jiss galli main jaanaa nahin too phirr uss kaee baarae main baat kaya karnee".

Well now my Question to all you guys, Sir , Teachers, Senior Members, Think Tank, Super Moderators is this that what you guys think that which Jet will be more Suitable for Pakistan as compare to J-11 Jet ?

There are few options available for PAF without any stings and restrictions.

1. Dassault Raffale (Cost is the Factor) but still this factor can be delt with many counter tactics.

2. EuroFighter Typhoon (Cost is the Factor).

In my opinion Raffale would be the best possible option for PAF no doubt it's costly but keeping in mind that India's MRCA, and Raffale will be the best answer to that deal which ever jet gets the go ahead for that deal, most probably will be the F-18 Super Hornet in my gut feelings.

Hey guys the Raffale option is great but this option i m talking about in comparison only with J-11.

FC-20 will is nothing to do with this comparison that deal is on that is different thing.

 

[araz]

So there is a very hot and interesting discussin going on the J-11 wether we buy them or not, or will Russia and India allow this to happened.

Well what they say in Urdu "Jiss galli main jaanaa nahin too phirr uss kaee baarae main baat kaya karnee".

Well now my Question to all you guys, Sir , Teachers, Senior Members, Think Tank, Super Moderators is this that what you guys think that which Jet will be more Suitable for Pakistan as compare to J-11 Jet ?

There are few options available for PAF without any stings and restrictions.

1. Dassault Raffale (Cost is the Factor) but still this factor can be delt with many counter tactics.

2. EuroFighter Typhoon (Cost is the Factor).

In my opinion Raffale would be the best possible option for PAF no doubt it's costly but keeping in mind that India's MRCA, and Raffale will be the best answer to that deal which ever jet gets the go ahead for that deal, most probably will be the F-18 Super Hornet in my gut feelings.

Hey guys the Raffale option is great but this option i m talking about in comparison only with J-11.

FC-20 will is nothing to do with this comparison that deal is on that is different thing.

Marey bhai,
When Muradk says something you listen with all your orifices open. He just wouldnot say something just for the heck of it. There is reason behind his talk. All the top brass of PAF including Rao Qamar are his students. SO please listen and listen carefully
ARAZ

 

[fatman17]

Well now my Question to all you guys, Sir , Teachers, Senior Members, Think Tank, Super Moderators is this that what you guys think that which Jet will be more Suitable for Pakistan as compare to J-11 Jet ?

1. J-11 has legal and propriety issues, so the chinese are not going to rock the boat (meaning offer it for export) till they somehow settle this issue with the russians.

2. so the only option is FC-20. so lets wait till 2012-14 to see what happens. meanwhile its a long time and anything can happen. PAF history tells us they dont like changing horses in mid-stream (eg; F-16 issue)

 

[Manticore]

1]
rumour was also there about twin engined super j-10? perhaps it would incorporate most of the avionics of j11b?

2]
if indian pilots are flying mki for some years [more experience] ,, would having the same platform hinder in our actions,, as the indians also know the plus and neg. aspects of the plane? moreover is mki better than j11-b as indians put it?
why not some super j11b with some specs of su35?

3]
i doubt that russia would sue china.. in this way they would lose another big importer of russian goods after india?

4]
j11b/ jf17 block2 combo would be great if we dont have financial constraints and buy them in some good quantities>? i agree that its no fun to buy j10 because ultimately its specs wouls be closely matched with jf-17-block2 anyway

 

[Patriot]

I don't think we can buy J11 because of Russian issue.OTOH, J10 is not matured.So in case we are sanctioned again then what's the backup plan?

 

[Arsalan]

come on guys, the J11!! ??

look at our resources man, the twin engine plane has been a nightmare for high budget airforces like india!
although the chines are beleived to have developed a more affordable and quicker maintainance system but still it is hard to folle guys!

for a country like us, we will have to spend minimum possible budget to get the desired results! sir muradk can better guide us about the flying hours of the plane, these planes require more maintainance time after each flight which means PAF will be able to conduct less sorties as they will be able to do with something like the J10 or F16!
we will never have enough planes, atleast in near future to fill in the neumeric gap with india, all that can be done is get the best out of what we have! in these conditions i guess J11 will be a big set back!!

though it is true that the specs of FC20 are not known but then again what about the specs of Su27 with which the indian are quite familiar with are currently operating a far better Su30! wouldnt it be better to get a surprise package like FC20 with secret punch in arsenal rather than the J11 that though improved but would never be as good as the Su30!