Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[araz]

I will accept your response without any dissection, discussion or difference, my dear Santro.

An open forum is a place for learning.We all are in posession of info which can be released without compromising national security and national interests of both the nations. So if you have something to say say it and be done with it . Talking in riddles will not avail us of the opportunity to learn from you which would be a shame!!
Araz

 

[VCheng]

Oh.. dont leave now.. Skeptics are always needed to bring down those that need a healthy dose of reality.

What upsets me no end is when my "skepticism" is attacked not with logical counter-argument, but by direct affronts to my patriotism, as if my opinion is somehow suspect just because I am in USA.

Other than that I do have a pretty thick skin.

Back to the regularly scheduled program on the F-16..............

An open forum is a place for learning.We all are in posession of info which can be released without compromising national security and national interests of both the nations. So if you have something to say say it and be done with it . Talking in riddles will not avail us of the opportunity to learn from you which would be a shame!!
Araz

Where have I talked in riddles?

The problem arises when instead of discussing what I say, I am attacked for being who I am!

There are numerous ways in which accuracy of selected operations in the F-16 can be manipulated without the enduser being aware. These are not subject to any workarounds.

Is that a riddle? No.

 

[muse]

Lets get back to arguments of merit

 

[Bratva]

Lets get back to arguments of merit

Where there is a merit, there is a demerit too

 

[SQ8]

What upsets me no end is when my "skepticism" is attacked not with logical counter-argument, but by direct affronts to my patriotism, as if my opinion is somehow suspect just because I am in USA.

Other than that I do have a pretty thick skin.

Well since you dont elaborate your arguments any further.. and as araz stated, swing around riddles.
So naturally people will start to suspect your motives when you are only dishing out a skeptic vibe, without backing it up with a detailed explanation.

On the topic as I mentioned.. the issue of the DTC and another piece of the electronic puzzle is very real and serious. But to state straight forward that us Pakistani's are inherently ill equipped to pass through hurdles is a little extreme. Especially when such hurdles have been thrown in the past and overcome.
I am not stating that a 20 year old university graduate will just sit with nothing more than a 386 laptop and crack the DTC.
But there have been efforts made in the past with sizable commitment of resources to find workarounds to such problems. efforts which weren't entirly based on engineering, but a combination of engineering , diplomacy and illicit wheelings and dealings.

 

[VCheng]

Well since you dont elaborate your arguments any further.. and as araz stated, swing around riddles.
So naturally people will start to suspect your motives when you are only dishing out a skeptic vibe, without backing it up with a detailed explanation.

On the topic as I mentioned.. the issue of the DTC and another piece of the electronic puzzle is very real and serious. But to state straight forward that us Pakistani's are inherently ill equipped to pass through hurdles is a little extreme. Especially when such hurdles have been thrown in the past and overcome.
I am not stating that a 20 year old university graduate will just sit with nothing more than a 386 laptop and crack the DTC.
But there have been efforts made in the past with sizable commitment of resources to find workarounds to such problems. efforts which weren't entirly based on engineering, but a combination of engineering , diplomacy and illicit wheelings and dealings.

Santro, fair enough, but obviously there is a limit to what can be stated in an open forum that cannot be crossed. Even so, there are no riddles in what I say (please see my reply to Araz above).

Having said that, I stand by my statements, whatever combination of "engineering, diplomacy and illicit wheelings and dealings" may have been deployed. What workaround appears to "work" is subject to the similar limitations.

My assertion may be ignored as the reader wishes to choose. It does not matter to me.

 

[araz]

=

Where have I talked in riddles?

The problem arises when instead of discussing what I say, I am attacked for being who I am!

There are numerous ways in which accuracy of selected operations in the F-16 can be manipulated without the enduser being aware. These are not subject to any workarounds.

Is that a riddle? No.

OK! If that is the case would it mean that this is a situation that exists with every supplier, as I presume that these restrictions would be imposed by every one or is this specific to US. If this is specific to US then this would be bad for their business. If not then how do other nations deal with the situation? Lets see where we go from here.
Araz

 

[SQ8]

Santro, fair enough, but obviously there is a limit to what can be stated in an open forum that cannot be crossed. Even so, there are no riddles in what I say (please see my reply to Araz above).

Having said that, I stand by my statements, whatever combination of "engineering, diplomacy and illicit wheelings and dealings" may have been deployed. What workaround appears to "work" is subject to the similar limitations.

My assertion may be ignored as the reader wishes to choose. It does not matter to me.

Again... I speak for the general response you had taken from the rest.. I have no issues with what you bring.
And yes, the limitations are there. It took 2 years to get the workaround for the original analog DTC going..
Yet we got nowhere when it came to getting weapons other than the already prescribed ones to fire from the original block 15's.
Lets put it this way.. as far as the block 52's are concerned.. "chalao kaam" is what we can agree on.

 

[VCheng]

OK! If that is the case would it mean that this is a situation that exists with every supplier, as I presume that these restrictions would be imposed by every one or is this specific to US. If this is specific to US then this would be bad for their business. If not then how do other nations deal with the situation? Lets see where we go from here.
Araz

Honestly Sir, I do not know enough about other suppliers or how other nations deal with this type of a situation to give you an answer that I can regard as truthful or complete.

Again... I speak for the general response you had taken from the rest.. I have no issues with what you bring.
And yes, the limitations are there. It took 2 years to get the workaround for the original analog DTC going..
Yet we got nowhere when it came to getting weapons other than the already prescribed ones to fire from the original block 15's.
Lets put it this way.. as far as the block 52's are concerned.. "chalao kaam" is what we can agree on.

The original analog DTC is a child's bicycle compared to the space shuttle of a multi-GB secure digital DTC coming from an MPS computer, and is tied down in multiple ways where Pakistani F-16s are concerned.

A "chalaao kaam" that appears to be "chaalu" may not be all that "chaalu" when push comes to shove.

And yes, like you, I know the limitations are there, no doubt, and perhaps in greater detail. Why am I attacked for saying that by some?

 

[SQ8]

Honestly Sir, I do not know enough about other suppliers or how other nations deal with this type of a situation to give you an answer that I can regard as truthful or complete.



The original analog DTC is a child's bicycle compared to the space shuttle of a multi-GB secure digital DTC coming from an MPS computer, and is tied down in multiple ways where Pakistani F-16s are concerned.

A "chalaao kaam" that appears to be "chaalu" may not be all that "chaalu" when push comes to shove.

And yes, like you, I know the limitations are there, no doubt, and perhaps in greater detail. Why am I attacked for saying that by some?

The same reason people on the other side of the border get offended when you talk of their MKI.. although the threshold in Pakistan is much higher.

As far as the DTC issue is concerned, lets leave it at currently unbroken. Till further news comes in , whether it can be broken in or not.. has been, will be.. is all speculation. From what I heard.. the IDF-AF took the US DTC out of the loop completely in the F-16I.. but then, those are the Israeli's. to whom clinton had promised the F-22.
The only thing we got after grovelling at the Americans feet are handcuffed jets.

 

[VCheng]

The same reason people on the other side of the border get offended when you talk of their MKI.. although the threshold in Pakistan is much higher.

As far as the DTC issue is concerned, lets leave it at currently unbroken. Till further news comes in , whether it can be broken in or not.. has been, will be.. is all speculation. From what I heard.. the IDF-AF took the US DTC out of the loop completely in the F-16I.. but then, those are the Israeli's. to whom clinton had promised the F-22.
The only thing we got after grovelling at the Americans feet are handcuffed jets.

Thank you for a fair post that I can accept graciously.

The IDF is a different case altogether.

Edit: Can you please tell me what this "reason" is so that I may be able to avoid it if at all possible?

"The same reason people on the other side of the border get offended when ....."

 

[Last Hope]

Working mechanics of a AIM-120.

 

[air marshal]

Aviation Art by Rehan Siraj - BLOCK 52s ARRIVE IN PAKISTAN: The painting depicts a three ship formation of F-16 Block 52+ flying towards their new home base in Pakistan.

 

[soul hacker]

will F16 A,B be equip wth BVR?

 

[krash]

will F16 A,B be equip wth BVR?

Yes they will. The MLU makes sure of that.