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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

F-16 Still Competitive in Fighter Market


14:55 GMT, February 1, 2009 NEWTOWN, Conn. | The Lockheed Martin F-16 has been continually upgraded since production began decades ago, and the latest Block 50/52 and Block 60/E/F variants remain highly capable and affordable multirole fighters.

Lockheed Martin received an order from Morocco at the end of 2007, snatching the 24-aircraft order away from Dassault's Rafale in a last minute effort. Lockheed Martin is able to be aggressive on pricing the F-16, and as in prior years the purchase of F-16s is one way of increasing a nation’s ties with the American defense establishment.

Other recent customers include Turkey, which executed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance for 30 aircraft during 2007 (consisting of 14 single-seat C models and 16 two-seat Ds). The Turkish aircraft will be assembled and delivered by TUSAS beginning in 2011. The new aircraft will replace about half the TuAF's elderly F-4 fleet in the near term as the service waits for the new Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II to arrive on the scene.

Greece ordered 30-unit Block 52+ F-16s in December 2005, but the Greek government later announced that it would not be exercising a 10-aircraft option under the deal and would be looking elsewhere to fill an ongoing requirement for another 30 fighters.

The Pakistani Air Force has ordered 18 new fighters through the Pentagon's Foreign Military Sales program at the end of 2007. The order is part of a bigger deal to upgrade the PAF's existing fleet of A/B model F-16s. Pakistan took an option to purchase an additional 18 fighters under the deal. Pakistan may exercise these options, but funding the purchase will be difficult at the same time the PAF is purchasing large numbers of Chengdu FC-1s. Ongoing political turmoil in the country could also cause further deliveries of F-16s to be blocked by the U.S. government.


Israel noted back in mid-2005 that it was considering additional purchases F-16 fighters if the F-35 program were to suffer further delays. Israel has also made noises about cutting its requirement for F-35s than expected.

Taiwan has long been expected to order 66 F-16s as part of an effort to recapitalize a portion of its fighter fleet, but domestic political wrangling has held up the process, along with the Bush administration's seeming ambivalence to the deal. Washington is currently looking to China to cooperate on a number of security issues, including efforts to end the nuclear threat posed by North Korea. The Taiwanese Air Force's plan to order 66 new F-16s will likely never reach fruition.

The F-16 also is in the running for a potentially huge order by the Indian Air Force, which issued a long-awaited Request for Proposals in August 2007 to fill a requirement for 126-200 new multirole fighters. The Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft program is intended to replace many of the service's elderly MiG-21s. Competing against the F-16 are the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, the Dassault Rafale, the MiG-35, and the Saab Gripen. Among the Western-built aircraft, the F-16 and Gripen are single-engined fighters that provide a “low-cost” alternative to the heavier, twin-engined Super Hornet and Rafale. The MiG-35 is a follow-on to the MiG-29, which is already in service with the IAF.

The RFP was not made available to the public, and it is not clear from the outside what factors the IAF considers most important in selecting a new fighter. In making its selection, India can be expected to be wary of offending long-time supplier Russia, but the nation is currently in a period of warming relations with the U.S. government, and U.S. recognition of India's right to develop its nuclear facilities may be rewarded by a large aircraft purchase.

Elsewhere, Lockheed Martin notes that “several customers” are showing high interest in the F-16E/F (formerly the Block 60 model developed for the United Arab Emirates), but many nations that would offer the best prospects for a new order are the same nations Lockheed Martin believes will be drawn to the F-35.

The F-35 was designed with the idea of supplanting the F-16 as the pre-eminent “affordable” multirole fighter in the western and Asian defense markets. Looking ahead, and Lockheed Martin may find itself in the same position as Dassault when the latter was offering customers both the Mirage 2000 and Rafale at the same time. Offering two aircraft that compete against each other may become an undesirable position for Lockheed Martin, or the F-16 may continue to be offered to customers that cannot afford the expected higher cost of the F-35.

Forecast International's projections call for production of the F-16 out to 2016, but additional orders could well extend production out several more years.

Eastern Europe has shown an affinity for cheap, single-engine fighters in recent years as countries in the region look to meet NATO responsibilities without breaking their limited defense budgets. Romania and Bulgaria is reported to be interested in acquiring 16 fighters, and the F-16 and Gripen are prime contenders for orders from these nations. Romania is looking for 48 fighters to replace 100 MiG-21s in its inventory. Funding is an obstacle, however. The near-term costs of the acquisition could be reduced by purchasing a mixture of new and refurbished aircraft or signing a lease deal.

The continuing interest in Lockheed Martin's F-16 is keeping GE and Pratt & Whitney busy building F110 and F100 engines for export orders, while both companies are developing engines for 5th generation fighters like the F-22 and F-35.

Overall, production during the 2009-2018 forecast period is projected to total 215 aircraft.
 
Does anyone has the timetable for planes the for PAF, both the new ones and the upgraded ones?
 
:wave:

everyone here is just waiting when f-16s are gonna land guys they will come very soon please answer my queries

are your birds coming with radar Absorbent Material coating near the flaps and ailerons ????

who can answer my question :undecided:

:cheers:
 
I think we should, if only the Americans are willing to prove that they are a reliable and friendly source. It should be a give and take relationship, but due to their current actions involving the WoT, much can be argued against American weaponry at the same time.
Sorry a bit off topic..
How can we prove our friendship? Free F-16's, largest trade partner and largest donor. What else will it take? I agree drone attacks needs to stop ASAP. I was hoping it would once Bush left the White House .. I still have faith in Obama.. :agree:

Pressler Amendment is a US law that was broken by Pakistan so we had no choice but to stop the delivery of F-16's is this the only source of your mistrust? Or is it deeper than that, didn't the US give Pakistan the latest and greatest arms in the 60's and 70's that allowed the PAF to dominate previous wars with India? Didn't the US send a fleet in defense of Pakistan?
 
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As a matter of fact man , U.S. betrayed us in 1971 war with india....we just kept waiting for your fleet to arrive which never came....

will u consider any country your frined if on a daily basis it kills ur country men and then give ur puppet leaders millions of dollars in the name of economic aid and blah blah???

and will u consider us as ur frineds if we offer more advanced technologies to ur enemies???
 
As a matter of fact man , U.S. betrayed us in 1971 war with india....we just kept waiting for your fleet to arrive which never came....

will u consider any country your frined if on a daily basis it kills ur country men and then give ur puppet leaders millions of dollars in the name of economic aid and blah blah???

and will u consider us as ur frineds if we offer more advanced technologies to ur enemies???


Hello,

U S didnot betray us in the 1971 war---it realized that it was an in-house problem with TWO BROTHERS. For that reason it stepped back ----wisely so.

But later on Nixon is known to have stated that if india attacked the west wing---it could be nuked. That was something to think about for india.

Now for friends---if you claim firendship---then you have to act like friends---and not let al qaeda hide in the backyard---friednship is a two way street.
 
As a matter of fact man , U.S. betrayed us in 1971 war with india....we just kept waiting for your fleet to arrive which never came....

will u consider any country your frined if on a daily basis it kills ur country men and then give ur puppet leaders millions of dollars in the name of economic aid and blah blah???

and will u consider us as ur frineds if we offer more advanced technologies to ur enemies???

The US documents of the 1971 war with India is now unclassified. By the time USS Enterprise reached the Bay of Bengal East Pakistan had fallen into Indian hands. The US engaged its armed forces in the defense of Pakistan at a time when anti-war sentiments were at its peak due to the Vietnam war.

Nixon urged China to send troops to India's western border, the Chinese refused despite US assurances that it would protect China from the USSR and yet you trust China implicitly.
As for the drone attacks, it cannot be justified against any sovereign nation especially against an ally like Pakistan. But the reality is our government is unable to explain to our people why they are not able to capture or kill the very people that committed the worst act of terrorism in our history. And also why these terrorist roam free within the borders of our closet ally?
As for the nuclear deal and weapons for India, try and understand this if you can. We need some leverage over India. Not just for US interest but also to prevent a nuclear war in the most populated region in the world and for the future security and prosperity of Pakistan. In protection of Pakistan, the US cannot commit its military in large enough numbers to offset the numerical advantage the Indians have. The only other option is to exert influence as a friend, make sure India has a stake in good relations with the US and thus prevent a war between India and Pakistan. Do you really think India backed down from a war with Pakistan over the Mumbai incident because they were afraid of Pakistan's military? They backed down because we did not permit it.

Sorry I did not mean to hijack the thread on F-16’s but I can't take any more BS on my country being evil….not to be trusted…
:guns:
 
Do you really think India backed down from a war with Pakistan over the Mumbai incident because they were afraid of Pakistan's military?

As a matter of fact, I do. Not because we are supermen, but because they had more to lose in a war. The Indians are not stupid, they do not want unnecessary wars (or at least I hope they dont).

I can't take any more BS on my country being evil….not to be trusted…

I can respect that, as a patriot. However, imagine what we feel when your senior politicans call us 'the most dangerous country in the world' and talk about strikes within our territory.

There was a study done some time ago by American or Canadian pschologists that stated that the reason a lot of young African Americans from lower-middleclass families chose to get involved with gangs was because everyone already assumed they were. The same is true for Pakistan. If you consistently threaten our sovereignty and call us the most dangerous country in the world, we will act like one.
 
American and Pakistani relationship is as complex as anything can get, but i think everyone knows that sooner or later the relationship will cool off and both countries will go their seperate ways. Right now, the US is heavily reliant on Pakistan for its war on terror. Personally; i was completely against this war on terror but after seeing what these a** holes are doing in Swat and constant suicide bombings in my country, we have no choice but to defeat them. If these drone strikes are killing high profiled targets, than i guess they can be justified but majority of the times they end up killing civilians enraging many Pakistanis.
 
Lets keep this thread to F-16 related issues and discuss US Pakistan relations in another thread.

I Come in Peace kinldy introduce yourself, if you have not already done so in members introduction section.
 
Lets keep this thread to F-16 related issues and discuss US Pakistan relations in another thread.

I Come in Peace kinldy introduce yourself, if you have not already done so in members introduction section.

Sorry I don't know much about F-16's other than it looks wicked cool - if only it came in passion pink. I did introduce myself but I can't make the avatar thing work .. is there a thread for that? I'm just messing with you..

The Chinese flag :china:and the Pakistan flag :pakistan: looks way cooler than my flag :usflag: :frown:
 
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F-16 apart from being a good weapon system has unfortunately become a matter of pride for the Pakistanis and they cant resist posting comments on threads related to F-16's. We already have a number of threads where F-16 is being discussed one way or the other.

Knowledge is not the criteria for posting about F-16. Nothing has prevented those members from posting then what are you waiting for.
 
F-16 apart from being a good weapon system has unfortunately become a matter of pride for the Pakistanis and they cant resist posting comments on threads related to F-16's. We already have a number of threads where F-16 is being discussed one way or the other.

Knowledge is not the criteria for posting about F-16. Nothing has prevented those members from posting then what are you waiting for.

Pride in a weapon is something I can never relate to sure the F-22 Raptor is the greatest thing since sliced bread - so what? I felt pride in what my country did in Serbia and Kuwait. Thanks to Bush we have lost our moral standing in the world community, regretable but I hope we can recover.

Sorry I digress, back to the F-16 someone answer chirag.s
:wave:

everyone here is just waiting when f-16s are gonna land guys they will come very soon please answer my queries

are your birds coming with radar Absorbent Material coating near the flaps and ailerons ????

who can answer my question :undecided:

:cheers:
 
The Chinese flag :china:and the Pakistan flag :pakistan: looks way cooler than my flag :usflag: :frown:

I also noticed that :lol:

Well atleast U.S. has a flag, some of Pakistan's other close allies dont even have a flag on this forum like Saudi Arabia and Turkey :frown:
 
Sorry I don't know much about F-16's other than it looks wicked cool - if only it came in passion pink. I did introduce myself but I can't make the avatar thing work .. is there a thread for that? I'm just messing with you..

The Chinese flag :china:and the Pakistan flag :pakistan: looks way cooler than my flag :usflag: :frown:

BE Happy and feel marry.
At least you got a flag (Flintstones rock flag) India got no flag here - hehehehe:rofl:
 
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