Pakistan doesn't reopen border despite US apology

[Abu Zolfiqar]

change your flag to indian, im tired of indians coming to this forum with western flags trying to go by as whites.

if you are so interested in india's interest in Afghanistan, why dont you ask india for transit route for your NATO trucks. Good luck with that, your india shares not a single border with Afghanistan. The only way india can have access to Afghanistan is through Pakistan (and Pakistan will never grant india that access) so indians are useless for the U.S. in this war.

AoA brother;

actually to be honest with you, I think that given his outsider perspective his post(s) is quite fair.


the real question is, why would hindustan invest in that country; is it from the heart, or is it for other simple purposes (influence). We all know the answer.

Again, as long as hindustan doesn't use Afghanistan to "encircle" or create disturbance against Pakistan --then they are free and within their right to help Afghan peoples. I (and you) are not naiive to think that hindustan is investing money in Afghanistan purely to help Afghanistan (read factions within Afghanistan).

there is a reason why we have intelligence / mil-intelligence agencies to keep a close eye on 'things' as they unravel

 

[Patrician]

Pakistan will put its own interest before any other country's interest.

Fair enough but that doesn't mean that Pakistan will support those in ruling Afghan people whom it will not let rule over itself.

Just put yourself in the shoes of those Afghan women and children who have been at the receiving ends of the taliban and you'll know what their rule means.

 

[SMC]

Omar

The cat is out now.

Don't have your head in the sand. Your President gets regular updates from our field commanders as well as Secretary of state, CIA directors on the tactical support to Afghanistan Taliban gets fin Pakisatn and the reluctance to address the cancer. The evidence trick work well with India and not with US

Denying is not going to help. Neither blackmailing with the transit routes

We also have insider information that India is actively involved in supporting terrorists in Pakistan. I kid you not, nor I am being sarcastic. But no American or Indian is willing to accept that since they believe anyone can make that up. So how do we know you're not making this **** up?

The word 'denial' ain't going to work since a key component of denial is overwhelming evidence.

 

[Patrician]

AoA brother;

actually to be honest with you, I think that given his outsider perspective his post(s) is quite fair.


the real question is, why would hindustan invest in that country; is it from the heart, or is it for other simple purposes (influence). We all know the answer.

Again, as long as hindustan doesn't use Afghanistan to "encircle" or create disturbance against Pakistan --then they are free and within their right to help Afghan peoples. I (and you) are not naiive to think that hindustan is investing money in Afghanistan purely to help Afghanistan (read factions within Afghanistan).

there is a reason why we have intelligence / mil-intelligence agencies to keep a close eye on 'things' as they unravel

Only a fool would think India is helping A'stan for anything other than its own strategic interests and I agree that Pakistan also has some strategic interests.

But strategic interests do not mean that you advocate the case of the bad guys.

 

[StingRoy]

indians are interested because they want Pakistan to be surrounded by enemy countries on both sides but Pakistan will never let that happen.

Do you think Pakistan would have ever let Soviets conquer Afghanistan? If that happened, Pakistan would have been surrounded by two enemy countries on each side.

Pakistan wants a friendly Afghanistan not an indian-friendly Afghanistan because an indian-friendly Afghanistan can never be a Pakistani friendly Afghanistan.

Besides Afghanistan is not even india's immediate neighbour. Worry about Bhutan and Nepal.

If you are really feeling insecure about your existence, then why don't you step up your efforts to help Afghanistan? Ever since Musharraf decided to step along with US in stabilizing the area, there has been severe criticism from its own denizens. Recent incidents of blocking supply lines into Afghanistan, denying to provide adequate security to the supply trucks on the transportation routes just bolsters the fact that a stable Afghanistan is not in Pakistan's interest.

Pakistan will put its own interest before any other country's interest.

Valid point. Same stands for India as well.

 

[SMC]

Omar

The cat is out now.

Don't have your head in the sand. Your President gets regular updates from our field commanders as well as Secretary of state, CIA directors on the tactical support to Afghanistan Taliban gets fin Pakisatn and the reluctance to address the cancer. The evidence trick work well with India and not with US

Denying is not going to help. Neither blackmailing with the transit routes

Also, besides my previous argument, here is where this conspiracy theory doesn't add up. We are supposedly supporting Taliban, yet US is selling us F-16s and giving us billions in aid.

You know how tough Bush was on anyone remotely anti-US? We sealed the F-16 deal while he was president and he gave us 5 billion in aid when we were supposedly Taliban.

Does this allegation make sense in anyway? You know about Bush, you know how he loved wars (metaphorically), etc. Yet despite Pakistan being aggressive against the US, he was ready to sell us F-16s and give us 5 billion in aid. Now we're supposed to receive 7.5 billion more in aid. When you think slightly different from what you're led to believe, it becomes obvious that these allegations are utterly BS.

 

[Patrician]

We also have insider information that India is actively involved in supporting terrorists in Pakistan. I kid you not, nor I am being sarcastic. But no American or Indian is willing to accept that since they believe anyone can make that up. So how do we know you're not making this **** up?

The word 'denial' ain't going to work since a key component of denial is overwhelming evidence.

And when has this evidence of India's involvement in terrorism inside Pakistan been given to GoI?

I'm not asking you to give it to me on an internet forum because I know that is not possible.

I'm asking why hasn't GoP given this evidence to GoI?

After the attack on SL team in lahore, your folks blamed India/RAW/LTTE etc......what happened? In what direction did the case go?

Same is the case with many other attacks inside Pakistan which were earlier blamed on India/RAW etc., what happened to all of those cases? Why didn't your GoP pursue those cases internationally.

Compare this response to that of GoI after the mumbai attacks.

Even today when our FM's etc. meet, India raises this issue of bringing the perpetrators of 26/11 to justice...why?.....because India has proof and the proof has been presented to GoP/US/UN/China/Russia/Other major world powers.

We pursued our case because we HAD a case, what about Pakistan?

 

[StingRoy]

We also have insider information that India is actively involved in supporting terrorists in Pakistan. I kid you not, nor I am being sarcastic. But no American or Indian is willing to accept that since they believe anyone can make that up. So how do we know you're not making this **** up?

The word 'denial' ain't going to work since a key component of denial is overwhelming evidence.

You can keep your "insider information" inside your box till the war is over or else just come out with it. Just showing pictures of Indian branded products found in your lawless areas does not constitute evidence and even if you think that you can prove a connection to direct funding from India, then come out with it.

Tell me what has Pakistan done for the betterment of the Afghan people, apart from allowing them free access to your country to train and fight against the so called "infidels" all over the world?

 

[Hawkish]

We also have insider information that India is actively involved in supporting terrorists in Pakistan. I kid you not, nor I am being sarcastic. But no American or Indian is willing to accept that since they believe anyone can make that up. So how do we know you're not making this **** up?

The word 'denial' ain't going to work since a key component of denial is overwhelming evidence.

I have to agree with you here. US is very much of aware of Indian position in Afghanistan and their high number of consulates in Afghanistan. They are in Afghanistan for one strategic reason. It gives them a tremendous control over Pakistan as well as interaction with Iran.

Now the smart thing is: India is accomplishing their strategic goal by social help/Nation building and they are doing it very successfully. By investing in infrastructure etc.

The problem with Pakistan: Using Taliban to achieve while India is doing with social work.

Stark contrast

Pakistan needs to play their card smartly. Yes You need to take care of Interest. No question. How do you do it? That is the point

 

[Omar1984]

If you are really feeling insecure about your existence, then why don't you step up your efforts to help Afghanistan? Ever since Musharraf decided to step along with US in stabilizing the area, there has been severe criticism from its own denizens. Recent incidents of blocking supply lines into Afghanistan, denying to provide adequate security to the supply trucks on the transportation routes just bolsters the fact that a stable Afghanistan is not in Pakistan's interest.

The pro-india Karzai government is not in Pakistan's interest and we've seen that in these past 9 years just like the pro-india pro-soviet government in Afghanistan in the 1970's was never in Pakistan's interest.


What happens in Afghanistan affects Pakistan much more than it affects india. Pakistan shares its 2nd longest running border with Afghanistan while india does not share a single border with Afghanistan.


So yea, Pakistan will place its interest before india's interest for sure and even before America's interests. America and Pakistan are allies and friendly nations since the independence of Pakistan in 1947. While india took the soviet's side, Pakistan took America's side but Pakistan will always be Afghanistan's neighbour. When America leaves Afghanistan, Pakistan will have to deal with the mess left in Afghanistan just like when America left Afghanistan after the Soviet war and Pakistan had to deal with the mess left in Afghanistan.

 

[Patrician]

I have to agree with you...

In short, India is playing its game by supporting guys who build Afghanistan (Parliament, roads etc.) and Pakistan is playing its game by supporting guys who destroyed Afghanistan(Bamian Buddhas etc.). It's not very hard to see whose strategy is more tenable in front of the Afghan people.

 

[SMC]

And when has this evidence of India's involvement in terrorism inside Pakistan been given to GoI?

I'm not asking you to give it to me on an internet forum because I know that is not possible.

I'm asking why hasn't GoP given this evidence to GoI?

After the attack on SL team in lahore, your folks blamed India/RAW/LTTE etc......what happened? In what direction did the case go?

Same is the case with many other attacks inside Pakistan which were earlier blamed on India/RAW etc., what happened to all of those cases? Why didn't your GoP pursue those cases internationally.

Compare this response to that of GoI after the mumbai attacks.

Even today when our FM's etc. meet, India raises this issue of bringing the perpetrators of 26/11 to justice...why?.....because India has proof and the proof has been presented to GoP/US/UN/China/Russia/Other major world powers.

We pursued our case because we HAD a case, what about Pakistan?

You don't get my argument, do you? India giving evidence of any supposed Pakistani terrorism was never my argument nor Hawkish's.

He was suggesting that US government privately provides evidence to Pakistani government about support from the Pakistani state for Taliban. My reply is that since this is insider info and can't be verified, how do I know you're not making this **** up. This is the same argument used ("how do we know that you're not making **** up")when I suggested that Pakistan government has privately provided evidence of Indian support for TTP to US government.

 

[SMC]

You can keep your "insider information" inside your box till the war is over or else just come out with it. Just showing pictures of Indian branded products found in your lawless areas does not constitute evidence and even if you think that you can prove a connection to direct funding from India, then come out with it.

Tell me what has Pakistan done for the betterment of the Afghan people, apart from allowing them free access to your country to train and fight against the so called "infidels" all over the world?

Yet again, a diversion with nothing relevant. Please, reply to what I am saying and if you can't comprehend what I am saying then say so.

 

[SMC]

I have to agree with you here. US is very much of aware of Indian position in Afghanistan and their high number of consulates in Afghanistan. They are in Afghanistan for one strategic reason. It gives them a tremendous control over Pakistan as well as interaction with Iran.

Now the smart thing is: India is accomplishing their strategic goal by social help/Nation building and they are doing it very successfully. By investing in infrastructure etc.

The problem with Pakistan: Using Taliban to achieve while India is doing with social work.

Stark contrast

Pakistan needs to play their card smartly. Yes You need to take care of Interest. No question. How do you do it? That is the point

Well if we're to accept your premise that Pakistan is supporting Taliban while India is doing what you say it's doing, then you're counting your chickens before they've hatched.

But back to the problem, there's no evidence been provided for Pakistani support, so that premise is false (or at least not supported with evidence) to begin with.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

In short, India is playing its game by supporting guys who build Afghanistan (Parliament, roads etc.) and Pakistan is playing its game by supporting guys who destroyed Afghanistan(Bamian Buddhas etc.). It's not very hard to see whose strategy is more tenable in front of the Afghan people.

the blind & distorted fail to see that which is out there which they don't want to see


again, plenty of threads out there to rubbish your claims



http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-investment-afghanistan-hits-500-million.html


I could bring up hindustanis supporting elements that supported a movement that waged a painful 3-decade-long civil war in Sri Lanka (one that claimed MANY more lives and destruction than the taleban ever could dream of); but....... there's no need to 'mirror' such tom-foolery