Pakistan Deploys Anti-Aircraft Missiles System in FATA to Prevent NATO Attacks Pakis

[Von Hölle]

Well we paid $45 billion dollars and lost the lives of civilians and soldiers in the war that was never ours, that aid doesn't even begin to cover the damage caused to Pakistan in the US's war.

Yes you did!! ..but US is ready shell out only this much and this will also cease once the shooting starts..as far as cost(human or financial) you should have thought of the consequences before breeding jihadis( at US's behest) or fighting against them (again at US's behest).

 

[Donatello]

It is fools like you who cause threads to derail....If you can talk with logic rather then passing stupid comments which clearly shows whose brain is half/full cracked....

I hope you will keep one simple thing in mind next time you hit the reply button i.e. Humans across the world will have different opinions on different matters....In case your super duper brain can comprehend then i am sure you would have seen that many people from Pakistan also believe that deploying SAMS is one thing and shooting down a NATO helicopter is another....

I guess none of the Indians know anything about the US-Pak relations.


So why not stay out of it, rather than your usual Spam or rant?


There are rules of engagement, and just like Pakistan's eastern border, they can employ those with the western one as well.

Once NATO has been warned, it must be NATO who would pay if they violate the rules again. Shooting down a US heli or NATO heli cannot be assumed that they will go to war with Pakistan. For reasons:

NATO alliance is desperately trying to climb out of Afghanistan. Danish have already left. British are desperate so are Americans back home. They are all financially broke, and fighting a war with 160 million people country simply doesn't make sense.

Opening a war in a totally new area, overnight, with no resources, is going to be a huge challenge.

Secondly, Obama wants no wars, for his election, why would he open a third one?

Third, well, we can see how successful they were really in Afghanistan, let alone Pakistan.

Fourth an attack on Pakistan would mean Pakistan against NATO alliance, which is not just US or UK but host of other nations. Not gonna happen.


So yea don't poke your nose in, when you have no idea about what you are talking.


No wonder US is offering apologies, from Anne Peterson to Adm Mullen.

 

[VCheng]

@penumbra: Good points,but please also consider it need not be war.

Consider the following:

NATO chopper is shot down.

Within a few hours:

All SAMs are destroyed. The PAF is crippled. There is a sea embargo.

That is all the retaliation needed from a military standpoint which the US can pull off ten different ways without even breathing hard.

The long term geopolitical considerations make this scenario highly unlikely.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Yes you did!! ..but US is ready shell out only this much and this will also cease once the shooting starts..as far as cost(human or financial) you should have thought of the consequences before breeding jihadis( at US's behest) or fighting against them (again at US's behest).

plz tell me where were these Jihadis before 2001 and what arm did they cause us before 2001??

 

[Donatello]

@penumbra: Good points,but please also consider it need not be war.

Consider the following:

NATO chopper is shot down.

Within a few hours:

All SAMs are destroyed. The PAF is crippled. There is a sea embargo.

That is all the retaliation needed from a military standpoint which the US can pull off ten different ways without even breathing hard.

The long term geopolitical considerations make this scenario highly unlikely.

All SAM cannot be destroyed. Unlike Iraq, NATO doesn't have much aerial assets in Afghanistan. They would have to come from a carrier battle group from somewhere in the Gulf or Arabian Sea. That's totally another logistical nightmare.

Also, with Iraq, which was all claimed by western media to have a reputable airforce, US prepared for strikes well in advance. We don't see that going on.

The truth is, for US/NATO to cripple PAF, they need to go into heartland of Pakistan for 70% of all our air power is in Punjab or Sindh. That means you are well into Pakistani territory, by hundreds of kilometers, unlike a couple in case of Afghan border.
At that stage, it would be a war my friend. They cripple us all they want, but we can cripple them in Afghanistan. You think they are going to airlift 100,000 troops to Pakistan to command over it?


Stakes are too high.
Last time this type of incident happened, it was in 2008. Kayani warned them that NATO supply would be cut off. He did that now, with 6500 NATO vehicles inside Pakistan. US has apologised but border is still closed. Do you really think Obama is capable of opening another war, much bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan?



To me this seems like this.

read:-
Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I hope we don't get Islamic revolutionized though.


America losing Pakistan in Asia would just dwarf anything else in the history. Think about it.



....and above all, you think China would eat pop-corn while this happens?

 

[deckingraj]

I guess none of the Indians know anything about the US-Pak relations.

So why not stay out of it, rather than your usual Spam or rant?

See kido...it don't work like that...My way or Highway...this is a discussion forum and every one has their opinion... Better challenge them on merit rather then using derogatory words like half cracked, rant, lack of knowledge and all that crap....Anyways i can see you have shared your opinion so ignoring your above written kiddish comments let me share my thoughts on it....

There are rules of engagement, and just like Pakistan's eastern border, they can employ those with the western one as well.

Are the rules of engagement different for different kind of machines???? Why a much easier target(read drones) are allowed in Pak Air-Space every now and then but not these copters???? Understand all this fuss is because PA troops got killed in this accident attack......

There was bound to be stern actions or else public will chew the govt. Moreover think about how detrimental had that been to the moral of PA personnels...An ally violating their Air-Space and killing their men and govt. doing nothing about it???

So far so good....Now since you seems to be a subject matter expert on this issue may i know what in your eyes would be NATO's reply in case Pak actually bring down their heli-copter??? Remember this will not be friendly fire, in fact a SAM would be fired in anger....

Once NATO has been warned, it must be NATO who would pay if they violate the rules again. Shooting down a US heli or NATO heli cannot be assumed that they will go to war with Pakistan. For reasons:

NATO alliance is desperately trying to climb out of Afghanistan. Danish have already left. British are desperate so are Americans back home. They are all financially broke, and fighting a war with 160 million people country simply doesn't make sense.

Opening a war in a totally new area, overnight, with no resources, is going to be a huge challenge.

Secondly, Obama wants no wars, for his election, why would he open a third one?

Third, well, we can see how successful they were really in Afghanistan, let alone Pakistan.

Fourth an attack on Pakistan would mean Pakistan against NATO alliance, which is not just US or UK but host of other nations. Not gonna happen.

Think for a second your assumption is incorrect??? What will happen??? Look NATO cannot ignore a heli-copter bring down by PAK missile. There is bound to be punitive actions in response....Remember the way GOP is under public pressure US would be under public pressure as well...no??? Republicans will chew Democrats if Obama ever dare to ignore NATO helicopter brought down by PAK...so please do keep that scenario in mind as well...

Now lets see the worst case scenario. NATO operation in AF will surely be doomed if PAK blinked but how about Pakistan??? Don't you see how much dependency is there?? Do you even know how badly you need IMF money for quite some time if you ever want to come out of this economic mess??? So please understand this is not a one-way street...Shooting down a NATO helicopter will escalate things to an unprecedented level and can have very dire consequences....Do you acknowldege that???

Now understand one thing very clearly, if NATO leave AF right now they would be embarrased for yet another loss like vietnam and that's about it...Their respective countries are much safer places....However you will be left all alone to clear up the mess....TTP on one side, AF mess on other and backbone of economic support cut in half....Just imagine and then give me an honest opinion....

So yea don't poke your nose in, when you have no idea about what you are talking.

Once again ignoring rant...Next time try to be more civil....

No wonder US is offering apologies, from Anne Peterson to Adm Mullen.

And they will..heck they have killed your army personnels...but remember frustration are on the rise...If results don't come by you will see more and more assertive NATO.....

 

[Dil Pakistan]

All SAM cannot be destroyed. Unlike Iraq, NATO doesn't have much aerial assets in Afghanistan. They would have to come from a carrier battle group from somewhere in the Gulf or Arabian Sea. That's totally another logistical nightmare.

Also, with Iraq, which was all claimed by western media to have a reputable airforce, US prepared for strikes well in advance. We don't see that going on.

The truth is, for US/NATO to cripple PAF, they need to go into heartland of Pakistan for 70% of all our air power is in Punjab or Sindh. That means you are well into Pakistani territory, by hundreds of kilometers, unlike a couple in case of Afghan border.
At that stage, it would be a war my friend. They cripple us all they want, but we can cripple them in Afghanistan. You think they are going to airlift 100,000 troops to Pakistan to command over it?


Stakes are too high.
Last time this type of incident happened, it was in 2008. Kayani warned them that NATO supply would be cut off. He did that now, with 6500 NATO vehicles inside Pakistan. US has apologised but border is still closed. Do you really think Obama is capable of opening another war, much bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan?



To me this seems like this.

read:-
Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I hope we don't get Islamic revolutionized though.


America losing Pakistan in Asia would just dwarf anything else in the history. Think about it.



....and above all, you think China would eat pop-corn while this happens?

Penumbra! I agree with a lot of stuff you have written but you will have to admit that if it comes to that then Pakistan will have to go for an all out action without holding "anything (and everything)" back. This can very quickly spiral into a situation of no return.

 

[VCheng]

@penumbra: That is why I clearly stated:

The long term geopolitical considerations make this scenario highly unlikely.

 

[Donatello]

See kido...it don't work like that...My way or Highway...this is a discussion forum and every one has their opinion... Better challenge them on merit rather then using derogatory words like half cracked, rant, lack of knowledge and all that crap....Anyways i can see you have shared your opinion so ignoring your above written kiddish comments let me share my thoughts on it....


Are the rules of engagement different for different kind of machines???? Why a much easier target(read drones) are allowed in Pak Air-Space every now and then but not these copters???? Understand all this fuss is because PA troops got killed in this accident attack......

There was bound to be stern actions or else public will chew the govt. Moreover think about how detrimental had that been to the moral of PA personnels...An ally violating their Air-Space and killing their men and govt. doing nothing about it???

So far so good....Now since you seems to be a subject matter expert on this issue may i know what in your eyes would be NATO's reply in case Pak actually bring down their heli-copter??? Remember this will not be friendly fire, in fact a SAM would be fired in anger....




Think for a second your assumption is incorrect??? What will happen??? Look NATO cannot ignore a heli-copter bring down by PAK missile. There is bound to be punitive actions in response....Remember the way GOP is under public pressure US would be under public pressure as well...no??? Republicans will chew Democrats if Obama ever dare to ignore NATO helicopter brought down by PAK...so please do keep that scenario in mind as well...

Now lets see the worst case scenario. NATO operation in AF will surely be doomed if PAK blinked but how about Pakistan??? Don't you see how much dependency is there?? Do you even know how badly you need IMF money for quite some time if you ever want to come out of this economic mess??? So please understand this is not a one-way street...Shooting down a NATO helicopter will escalate things to an unprecedented level and can have very dire consequences....Do you acknowldege that???

Now understand one thing very clearly, if NATO leave AF right now they would be embarrased for yet another loss like vietnam and that's about it...Their respective countries are much safer places....However you will be left all alone to clear up the mess....TTP on one side, AF mess on other and backbone of economic support cut in half....Just imagine and then give me an honest opinion....




Once again ignoring rant...Next time try to be more civil....


And they will..heck they have killed your army personnels...but remember frustration are on the rise...If results don't come by you will see more and more assertive NATO.....

You only bring one side of argument.

I assumed the worst in my post. If you cannot comprehend that, then that's not my headache.

The stakes are too high. Pakistan will lose in financial terms. USA will lose in credibility among it's NATO allies. Shooting down one helicopter cannot lead to such a full scale war. That's why Pakistan is warning the NATO in advance. Remember we have given them more chances than ever, and they must, as our allies respect that.


You are free to come here and post, no one is doing that, maybe that's what makes this forum unique. But at least post something about US-Pak relations, rather than just saying something stupid like..."oh you shoot down one heli and they kick all your mama's ***......"

Please, we don't want another flame thread.

 

[somebozo]

This registers a strong protest and sends the prospect of downing nato choppers i future incursion. They should stop wet dreaming of hot pursuit in Pak land.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

hmm good move by pakistan

 

[waraich66]

US and NATO violating from more than one year , why AA missiles deployed too late??????

 

[Donatello]

US and NATO violating from more than one year , why AA missiles deployed too late??????

See, just like IAF incursion into Pakistani Airspace, there is buffer zone over borders. Few kms. On the eastern side of Pakistan, where IAF is more sophisticated than Afghanistan, we have higher alert levels. Even then, given the Mumbai drama, when IAF crossed into Pakistan, PAF simply trailed them, until they went back. They could have shot it down, but sanity prevailed. Now if IAF had continued to go towards our urban areas/military sites, PAF would have shot them down.


In case of NATO violations, they are mistakes, or rapid incursions which, when they know about, they pull back. This time they came in,attacked and killed our men. This is beyond the rules of engagement. In fact at that moment Pakistan could have shot the heli down. Again sanity prevailed, but until what time?


last time this happened, Kayani warned them. This time they did cut off the supply line, which to this moment is cut off. Lets see what Kayani does now. Screw NATO, seriously.



...and yea, CIA drones are flown from Pakistani airbases. Just like in the past we lent the airbases to Americans. So please don't bring that in.

Border violations, killing our men by manned helis, is totally different topic.

 

[Areesh]

I think you need every cent you can get your hands on.

Pakistan is a country of 180 million buddy not a welfare or charity organization. Lolzzz. I wonder how some people make such dumb comments.

 

[mughaljee]

a good move,
by the way any information about that Anti-Aircraft Missiles System ?