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Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

Have the government issue an order to shoot them down then, or issue an official statement indicating that any understanding between the US and Pakistan on the issue is now at an end, and any future drone operations will only be conducted if Pakistan has complete control over them. US officials can act as observers.

If then the US refuses to comply with Pakistan's demands, have the President and PM address the people in order to let them know that all US aid and IFI support will likely end and the 91% of Pakistanis who do not pay taxes will have to start paying up, and the significant majority that does not vote will have to get of their arses and vote for better government.

Stop looking at the Army to act unconstitutionally and overthrow/overrule the government that Pakistanis themselves elected, because now you don't like the policies pushed by those seeking the 'biradri' vote. Vote deeya tha biradri pay to ab bhugto.

Had the PPP taken a strong stance on the Davis issue, prosecuted him and established that he did not qualify for blanket immunity, I would have supported them completely, and strongly criticized the Army as many of you are criticizing it now if they had forced the GoP to release Davis. But the PPP all along was not the least bit interested in taking on the US, and neither was Nawaz Sharif and the PML-N. These two entities are the ones running Pakistan, and elected by the people of Pakistan. If anyone needs to be held accountable, first and foremost it is the politicians, not the Army, which in this case acted constitutionally and appropriately.

sure, we'll do that. The incompetent PPP gov't is gonna look at me like I have ten heads. The newly "constitutionalized" army meanwhile will sit on the side waiting for PPP's order to to shoot down drones while hellfire missiles kill innocent people. A fine example of picking and choosing when to follow the consititution that best suits your interest. Our Army's political talent is superb, they have 30+ plus years of experience after all.

BTW, I dont care much care about Davis' release. That was a given outcome from day one and just like I had imagined, with Qisas. I care about this new nightmare in the making that is these drones and their indiscriminate killings.
 
You can put all kinds of spin on it you want, that PA is following the gov't and that's how it should be, here is the thing, bro, it sounds like a total croc s***.
You can call my reasoning all the names you want, but that does not change the fact that my reasoning is correct, and you have no rebuttal to it. As pointed out by Patanjali, the majority of the people in Pakistan, liberal, moderate, conservative, expressing outrage, especially at the Army, are merely resorting to emotional ranting without substance.

The facts are facts - the Army is required to follow the GoP's directives, and it did so in the case of Raymond Davis. The only party that can be blamed in this particular situation is the PPP, and the PML-N, since both chose to not antagonize the US for the sake of continued aid.

Pakistanis know what needs to be done to break the shackles of this transactional relationship with the US and have an independent foreign policy and an economy not in need of foreign economic support - it is reform of the Public Sector Enterprises that cost Pakistan billions of DOLLARS every year, as well as tax reforms that result in a significant number of the 91% of Pakistanis not paying taxes being brought into the tax net. The nation needs to have an open dialog on the short to medium term painful measures that need to be taken in order to achieve a degree of economic autonomy from foreign support, and then elect and stick with those that promise to take those measures and reform Pakistan, and not those promising to make Pakistan an 'Asian Tiger' or 'Roti Kapra Makaan' for everyone, without a single credible economic policy to implement.

Pakistan Army has let the nation down. Tribesmen are dismayed at the army, the govt, the country. People in the rest of the country are outraged at the army for not shooting down drones.
The Pakistan Army is an Army, not a government. During Musharraf's time every single criticism of the Army made on this thread was completely applicable, since the Army was essentially running the State. But it is not running the State now, an elected government is in place, and Pakistanis need to look to pressuring the government to change its policies, while looking to the Army to continue to respect the decisions made by the Government.

Pakistanis need to stop being hypocrites - Musharraf was hounded out of office for being a dicatator, with loud calls for democracy. Now that the Army is supporting the democratically elected government on an 'unpopular' policy, Pakistanis are ranting and whining against the Army for not doing exactly what they kicked it out of power for.

Make up your minds Pakistanis - do you want a government elected by Pakistanis, or do you want military rule? If the former, then you cannot blame the Army for the Davis fiasco, and if the latter, then come out on the streets in favor of Martial Law, and then hold the Army accountable and pay the price for not being able to influence the type of government we can have through elections.
 
sure, we'll do that. The incompetent PPP gov't is gonna look at me like I have ten heads. The newly "constitutionalized" army meanwhile will sit on the side waiting for PPP's order to to shoot down drones while hellfire missiles kill innocent people. A fine example of picking and choosing when to follow the consititution that best suits your interest. Our Army's political talent is superb, they have 30+ plus years of experience after all.
That is how democracy is supposed to work, and the people are supposed to remove the politicians that disregard their demands. And like I said, any time the Army acts constitutionally is something for Pakistanis to be glad of. Much as you argue that the 'Army is newly constitutionalized', the Pakistani people criticizing the Army are also equally hypocritical in first calling for representative government, and then expecting the Army to act unconstitutionally.

The fault here is entirely with the electorate, if they choose to re-elect the PPP or PML-N.
 
superb justification. That's how I used to think two years ago during the intense suicide bombing in Pakistan. But I've learned a lesson in these past two-three days. That in math 2+2 is always 4. The end result is always accurately predicted. But when it comes to human emotions such is not the case. 2+2 can be 5 or 1.

The suicide bombing that followed in the aftermath of 2006 drone strike where 80 people died and lal masjid operation, was horrific. Innocent people got killed through out Pakistan. People reasoned, argued, justified, nothing seemed to fit. Why the victims of suicide bombing dont become suicide bomber? if the suicide bombers are the result of drone strikes and Musharraf's wrong doing, why are the innocent people being punished. This is 2+2 becoming 5 for you. No accurate outcome.

God forbid, I see another such bloody episode of suicide bombing coming our way very soon and this drone strike will be in corner stone of it. All your justification will sound and appeal very reasonable on paper and but out on the street innocent Pakistanis will be getting killed (god forbid).
There is no justification for the relatives killed in drone strikes to then go out and kill innocent Pakistanis in streets, markets and funerals. If they want revenge and have the balls, then they need to go attack US forces carrying out the drone attacks.

'Being emotional' is no justification for mass murder of innocents - as civilized human beings it is up to us to control our emotions and act rationally, otherwise we are no different from dogs and other animals.
 
Agno, you are missing the point, bro. This thread here, all of us here, we're outraged at 40 plus innocent people getting killed at the press of a button. No reason was given, no head rolled, nothing happened. PPP like usual condemned it only difference this time, Mr. Kiyani was also in it. That's y he's dragged into this. I don't care who you want to blame, and who shouldn't be blame, as long as some accountability happens.

I want to know what's gonna happen at the next drone strike? who's gonna be responsible for more innocent deaths? who's responsible for this one? what is going to be the new drone policy if any? whoever that power is in Pakistan, the PPP, the Army or Santa Clause, do something about this indiscriminate killing. Freggin, close to 50 people get killed and we dont even get an explanation?

I'm standing for this cause, I don't care for these justification because I've seen em all. I care about what the future holds for Pakistan. And judging by the recent events, I see a dark bloody one.
 
Agno, you are missing the point, bro. This thread here, all of us here, we're outraged at 40 plus innocent people getting killed at the press of a button. No reason was given, no head rolled, nothing happened. PPP like usual condemned it only difference this time, Mr. Kiyani was also in it. That's y he's dragged into this. I don't care who you want to blame, and who shouldn't be blame, as long as some accountability happens.

I want to know what's gonna happen at the next drone strike? who's gonna be responsible for more innocent deaths? who's responsible for this one? what is going to be the new drone policy if any? whoever that power is in Pakistan, the PPP, the Army or Santa Clause, do something about this indiscriminate killing. Freggin, close to 50 people get killed and we dont even get an explanation?

I'm standing for this cause, I don't care for these justification because I've seen em all. I care about what the future holds for Pakistan. And judging by the recent events, I see a dark bloody one.

The response is the same as the one in my earlier posts (556 and 560), to which I have not received a rebuttal:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...apology-over-drone-strike-38.html#post1587560

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...apology-over-drone-strike-38.html#post1587645
 
There is no justification for the relatives killed in drone strikes to then go out and kill innocent Pakistanis in streets, markets and funerals. If they want revenge and have the balls, then they need to go attack US forces carrying out the drone attacks.

'Being emotional' is no justification for mass murder of innocents - as civilized human beings it is up to us to control our emotions and act rationally, otherwise we are no different from dogs and other animals.

of course, that's no justification. I already mentioned earlier that they're gonna try to hit the Americans in Pakistan and in all likely hood wont get a single one but will end up killing hundreds of Pakistanis in the near area. There is your justification.
 
of course, that's no justification. I already mentioned earlier that they're gonna try to hit the Americans in Pakistan and in all likely hood wont get a single one but will end up killing hundreds of Pakistanis in the near area. There is your justification.

That is not justification - attacks on just any 'American' are not justifiable. If they want revenge, they need to attack the US military.

They know where to find them.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

I told you, your reasoning is fine and totally sound.............. but on the paper.

Anything other than that is irrational and emotional ranting, which is useless and unproductive and will not change anything.
 
That is not justification - attacks on just any 'American' are not justifiable. If they want revenge, they need to attack the US military.

They know where to find them.

yes, but apparently they wont listen to us.

---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

That is not justification - attacks on just any 'American' are not justifiable. If they want revenge, they need to attack the US military.

They know where to find them.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------



Anything other than that is irrational and emotional ranting, which is useless and unproductive and will not change anything.

hence, I withdraw from any further discussion, Mr. Robot.
 
yes, but apparently they wont listen to us.

Then they need to be eliminated, since they are a danger to society and Pakistan.

BTW, you have read my posts on the drone issue, I have always been against the US operating drones in Pakistan. Any operations in Pakistan must be carried out by Pakistan - the US can send observers to monitor the technology and ensure it is not compromised.

I am still hopeful that the GoP and PA might be able to convince the US to either let Pakistan operate the drones (preferable since they do have value in taking out targets) or end the drone strikes on Pakistani soil.
 
hence, I withdraw from any further discussion, Mr. Robot.
Sorry you feel that way, but the facts are facts, and emotional ranting and blame games are not going to resolve anything.

Pakistanis need to come out on the streets to force their elected representatives to listen, as they did with the restoration of the judiciary, and they need to have national discourse on painful economic measures to make the country economically independent.
 
Then they need to be eliminated, since they are a danger to society and Pakistan.

BTW, you have read my posts on the drone issue, I have always been against the US operating drones in Pakistan. Any operations in Pakistan must be carried out by Pakistan - the US can send observers to monitor the technology and ensure it is not compromised.

I am still hopeful that the GoP and PA might be able to convince the US to either let Pakistan operate the drones (preferable since they do have value in taking out targets) or end the drone strikes on Pakistani soil.

Brilliant plan. lemme see if I got it right.

1. we allow outside forces to rain bombs on them.
2. They feel betrayed and vow revenge.
3. They become a menace to society in pursuit of their revenge.
4. we use our army to eliminate this menace.

happy ever after.
 
Brilliant plan. lemme see if I got it right.

1. we allow outside forces to rain bomb on them.
2. They feel betrayed and vow revenge.
3. They become a menace to society in pursuit of their revenge.
4. we use our army to eliminate this menace.

happy ever after.
And why exactly have we not seen the kinds of protests and pressure on the government from the people, media, lawyers that we saw when Pakistanis wanted an independent judiciary restored?

The fact is that the people have a peaceful avenue to make the government listen, and they have not used it yet to the extent that they used it for the restoration of the judiciary and removal of Musharraf.
 
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