Pakistan conducts successful test launches of 4 x Nasr missiles 05 Nov, 2013

[SQ8]

Mind games are nothing new to us Indians.

Neither is effort to actually read through posts and contest them before making jingoistic statements it seems.

 

[cyphercide]

Neither is effort to actually read through posts and contest them before making jingoistic statements it seems.

I vigorously oppose your laser like logic interfering with me f*cking with other members out here.


What is it that you want? A technical discussion?

 

[SQ8]

I vigorously oppose your laser like logic interfering with me f*cking with other members out here.


What is it that you want? A technical discussion?

Yes. That is what you should aim for. Parroting arguments is best left to members whos persona suits it rather than someone like you pretending and trying to do the same. Its like putting Christian Bale's batman into the suit of Clooney.

 

[cyphercide]

Yes. That is what you should aim for. Parroting arguments is best left to members whos persona suits it rather than someone like you pretending and trying to do the same. Its like putting Christian Bale's batman into the suit of Clooney.

Jesus!!!! How is one supposed to reconcile Clooney's nipples on that suit? I was like five when Val Kilmer got to don the bat suit. Now I know that he was a drama queen while shooting, but he still got to play awesomeness personified.

 

[SQ8]

Jesus!!!! How is one supposed to reconcile Clooney's nipples on that suit? I was like five when Val Kilmer got to don the bat suit. Now I know that he was a drama queen, but he was the awesomeness personified when I was little.

Exactly. So now , look at posts 163 and 164 and then give me something to talk about.

 

[notorious_eagle]

But you reduced your enemy's threshold as well!

Before it was like Pakistan hits India with a high yield nuke, we hit back with a high yield nuke.

With Nasr in the scene, Pakistan hits India with a low yield nuke, India still hits back with a high yield nuke! Its not like India will be like oh so cute Pakistan hit us with a low yield nuke, lets reply with a small yield nuke as well.

Capability wise, Nasr brings nothing new to the table.

Your not getting it

If Pakistan decides to exercise the option of using Nasr, expect the call to go out to the Strategic Command to start assembling Strategic Nuke. If India decides to launch a Strategic Nuke against Pakistan, Pakistan will exercise the same option. Result : MAD.

 

[Bang Galore]

Your not getting it

If Pakistan decides to exercise the option of using Nasr, expect the call to go out to the Strategic Command to start assembling Strategic Nuke. If India decides to launch a Strategic Nuke against Pakistan, Pakistan will exercise the same option. Result : MAD.

Well, neither are you getting it. If India did decide to move forces into Pakistan, Nasr etc have already been discounted and you risk Indian retaliation. Your logic of strategic nuke response from Pakistan risks the survivability argument and it is not something that can be treated lightly.. No matter what India does, Pakistan will suffer. If India decided against a massive response, the almost immediate Indian counter would be use of nukes against Pakistani forces. Do you think Pakistan will come out on top in a tit for tat exchange?

 

[cyphercide]

Exactly. So now , look at posts 163 and 164 and then give me something to talk about.

I don't have to do jack. You are smart enough to answer anything from MIRV warheads to rods from God. You are deliberately trying to make me look like a fool.. as if it wasn't clear by now.


As far as I understand, the Nasr system lowers your/our threshold on nuclear deterrence...

 

[Secur]

Nasr has a range of little more than the Bofors 155mm. howitzer guns..

At times , I wonder why do you " little kids " are allowed on serious threads .

 

[SQ8]

Well, neither are you getting it. If India did decide to move forces into Pakistan, Nasr etc have already been discounted and you risk Indian retaliation. Your logic of strategic nuke response from Pakistan risks the survivability argument and it is not something that can be treated lightly.. No matter what India does, Pakistan will suffer. If India decided against a massive response, the almost immediate Indian counter would be use of nukes against Pakistani forces. Do you think Pakistan will come out on top in a tit for tat exchange?

No matter what India does, it will suffer as well. You are taking nuclear systems here and not diwali grade fireworks. However, it is the tit for tat response that suits India and NOT the current massive response policy. 

I don't have to do jack. You are smart enough to answer anything from MIRV warheads to rods from God. You are deliberately trying to make me look like a fool.. as if it isn't clear by now.


As far I understand, the Nasr system lowers your/our threshold on nuclear deterrence...

You did that effort yourself with the initial gung ho approach.. I am trying to do the opposite and get you to be mathematical about it.

The Nasr does nothing new that weapons like the Hatf or a Mirage with a nuke could not do in terms of lowering the threshold. What it does is lower the time India has to calculate the bluff. As I said before, as long as India's policy of all out retaliation stays.. the Nasr serves as a deterrent. Otherwise, tac nukes have limited ability in a modern mobile NBC warfare environment. 

But you reduced your enemy's threshold as well!

Before it was like Pakistan hits India with a high yield nuke, we hit back with a high yield nuke.

With Nasr in the scene, Pakistan hits India with a low yield nuke, India still hits back with a high yield nuke! Its not like India will be like oh so cute Pakistan hit us with a low yield nuke, lets reply with a small yield nuke as well.

Capability wise, Nasr brings nothing new to the table.

Again , weighed jingoism aside.. You fail to anticipate that Pakistan already has the high yield nukes ready to go when India lobs its.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well, neither are you getting it. If India did decide to move forces into Pakistan, Nasr etc have already been discounted and you risk Indian retaliation. Your logic of strategic nuke response from Pakistan risks the survivability argument and it is not something that can be treated lightly.. No matter what India does, Pakistan will suffer. If India decided against a massive response, the almost immediate Indian counter would be use of nukes against Pakistani forces. Do you think Pakistan will come out on top in a tit for tat exchange?

No one comes out on top, its a race to the bottom in my opinion. I would rather be spending money on social sectors instead of wasting it on Defence.

I am aware that India will have calculated Pakistan's response if it decides to move against Pakistan. As Oscar explained it perfectly, Pakistan is choosing the 'Samson Option'. If India does decide to retaliate against Pakistan with an overwhelming strike, Pakistan will choose the same option too. Since both sides will launch their strategic weapons at roughly the same time, MAD comes into play. I think Oscar has summed Pakistan's strategy perfectly on the last page, do give it a read. It would be a mistake on your part to assume that India will come out unscathed in a showdown against Pakistan. Lets try to find ways to bridge our differences instead of finding ways to frying ourselves up.

 

[Slayer786]

60km range.

Isnt Amritsar 50 kms away from Pakistan? And many more sities and towns.

 

[Bang Galore]

No matter what India does, it will suffer as well. You are taking nuclear systems here and not diwali grade fireworks.

You ever see me disagreeing ? It is your guys who keep talking about using nukes like quasi-conventional weapons. 

No one comes out on top, its a race to the bottom in my opinion. I would rather be spending money on social sectors instead of wasting it on Defence.

I am aware that India will have calculated Pakistan's response if it decides to move against Pakistan. As Oscar explained it perfectly, Pakistan is choosing the 'Samson Option'. If India does decide to retaliate against Pakistan with an overwhelming strike, Pakistan will choose the same option too. Since both sides will launch their strategic weapons at roughly the same time, MAD comes into play. I think Oscar has summed Pakistan's strategy perfectly on the last page, do give it a read. It would be a mistake on your part to assume that India will come out unscathed in a showdown against Pakistan. Lets try to find ways to bridge our differences instead of finding ways to frying ourselves up.

I have no illusion on war gone nuclear. Neither should those who believe that they can use nukes as quasi-conventional weapons & hope that the enemy will humour them with a response that they might like. Do you see me suggesting anywhere that India will come out well? I'm pointing to the initiator of such use not benefiting, doesn't mean the other party does.

I never talk about the use of nukes lightly, in fact I ignore most posts on such lines as not meriting a response. It was the fact that you had posted that got me to reply. I couldn't agree more that frying ourselves up is a stupid way to go about things.

 

[Manindra]

your point is?

your point is?

your point is?

In 1965 Pakistan launch Operation Gibralter with a assumption that India would not retailate & result is they have to celebrate Defence Day every year.
In 1971, their assumption is that Defence of the East Pakistan lies in West Pakistan but the result is they have to gift defence equipment to Bangladesh to show soladirity with them.
In 1999, they try to play same game in Kargil which India played in Siachin in 1984 with a assumption that India could not recapture it but the result is they have to run to USA for negotiation.

Summary is that every policy they frame on a assumption & this is a new assumption is that India would bow down against their so called Tactical Nukes.

 

[Thirdfront]

I think the true purpose of the test is to balm the bruised ego. Somebody might be thinking that if India launches rockets 240 km vertically, they at least need to match that number, hence 4X60 km....