Pakistan conducts successful test launches of 4 x Nasr missiles 05 Nov, 2013

[genmirajborgza786]

its 3077.066 km from karachi (taking the southern most city) to port blair and wiki reported range of shaheen 2 is 2500km .. now u r turn

shaheen III 3000-3500 km 
could some one please upload the video of the test cant wait to see 4 missile's tested

please koi video upload karo

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The question is not of throwing at nuke at Amassed formations, its of throwing a nuke at attacking columns.
Whether 80 tanks get hit or 8.. the usage of a nuke will leave India no choice(if it is true to its own policies of all out attack after a single nuke) except total retaliation. This is what Pakistan counts on anyway now. As its strategic warheads will be ready go before it uses the TNW. That is something that India does not want or can afford regardless of the bravado of fanboys here. Hence, unless India changes its policies to one of gradual escalation in nuclear weapons as well, its own policies are going ensure the success of TNWs as a deterrent force.

Come now; @Oscar; even you are indulging in "shooting the wind" now!
In a Nuke War; there is not any 'gradual escalation' in Nuclear Weapons.
Once somebody's (anybody's) finger on the 'red-button' gets itchy; themn Mayhem simply gets loose. That is what all the 'Armageddon Doctrines' are all abou.t
So finally; it all boils down to 'who has the cast-iron gonads (and the stupidity) to punch the red-button first' . After that, it is all the realm of the unknown and unreal!
You should be savvy enough to know that.

 

[INDIC]

shaheen III 3000-3500 km 
could some one please upload the video of the test cant wait to see 4 missile's tested

please koi video upload karo

Shaheen III has been tested yet, there are speculations that such missile development don't exist.

 

[erwineugene]

PLZ PAKISTAN ARMY NEXT TIME FIRE SHAHEEN 3 ND GHAURI 3

ok.done anything more

PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN DESPERATELY WANTS 2 C THE LIVE FIRING OF SHAHEEN 3 ND GHAURI 3. THANKS

really

 

[The Deterrent]

But , why fire it from Karachi in the first place ? Why not from somewhere more closer to Port Blair ? Why not decrease the payload of the Shaheen-2 because that will result in increase of the range of the missile ? @AhaseebA

Why do you think anyone would nuke Port Blair?
Let Shaheen-III arrive, then we can threaten Port Blair.

could you please explain it in detail, what if, India chooses to respond with a massive strategical nuke strike, will we wait to get hit first, which obviously doesn't makes sense, or will it be launched simultaneously like they launch, we get the info before hand & launch our massive strategical ( not tactical as it will be too small for a successful MAD scenario ) strike to initiate a formal mutual assured annihilation

please shed some light into this as even I am confused

IF India attempts something like, Pakistan's ASFC would never have enough time to detect the incoming missiles, forward it to the higher ups, take a decision and order a counter-launch. The time windows is too small to react (around 5 minutes). So, we simply cannot respond spontaneously, with the present command and control system.

Shaheen II had a range of 3000km aswell reported in the missile threat site aswell

Though NDC/NESCOM would have done something to cover whole of India if we had developed shaheen II a decade before than certainly i refuse to believe that we have done nothing since than

No Shaheen-II has a range of 2000km. The upgrade to it, Shaheen-III, will cover all of India once deployed.

Come now; @Oscar; even you are indulging in "shooting the wind" now!
In a Nuke War; there is not any 'gradual escalation' in Nuclear Weapons.
Once somebody's (anybody's) finger on the 'red-button' gets itchy; themn Mayhem simply gets loose. That is what all the 'Armageddon Doctrines' are all abou.t
So finally; it all boils down to 'who has the cast-iron gonads (and the stupidity) to punch the red-button first' . After that, it is all the realm of the unknown and unreal!
You should be savvy enough to know that.

No Capt. , you are not entirely correct. You've been quite insistent on the "hara-kiri" stuff, but it simply does not happens like that. Pakistani and Indian nuclear weapons and their delivery systems are not at par with the Russian and American ones in terms of readiness state, and YET analysts concluded that limited nuclear exchange was fairly possible between them during the cold war. You can't just press the "red" button, there is a whole lot of human factor involved.

When you know that you can press it any time you want, and that the enemy cannot stop you from pressing it....then you decide to sit back, relax and think all over it i.e. either to stop the MADness or to continue it. It all depends on the communication channels.

However, if somebody is mad enough to do something like that, he would invite unacceptable damage upon India itself. So the small, teeny TNW saves the day and deters the conventional assault in the first place.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why do you think anyone would nuke Port Blair?
Let Shaheen-III arrive, then we can threaten Port Blair.



IF India attempts something like, Pakistan's ASFC would never have enough time to detect the incoming missiles, forward it to the higher ups, take a decision and order a counter-launch. The time windows is too small to react (around 5 minutes). So, we simply cannot respond spontaneously, with the present command and control system.



No Shaheen-II has a range of 2000km. The upgrade to it, Shaheen-III, will cover all of India once deployed.



No Capt. , you are not entirely correct. You've been quite insistent on the "hara-kiri" stuff, but it simply does not happens like that. Pakistani and Indian nuclear weapons and their delivery systems are not at par with the Russian and American ones in terms of readiness state, and YET analysts concluded that limited nuclear exchange was fairly possible between them during the cold war. You can't just press the "red" button, there is a whole lot of human factor involved.

When you know that you can press it any time you want, and that the enemy cannot stop you from pressing it....then you decide to sit back, relax and think all over it i.e. either to stop the MADness or to continue it. It all depends on the communication channels.

However, if somebody is mad enough to do something like that, he would invite unacceptable damage upon India itself. So the small, teeny TNW saves the day and deters the conventional assault in the first place.

2000-2500km...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No Capt. , you are not entirely correct. You've been quite insistent on the "hara-kiri" stuff, but it simply does not happens like that. Pakistani and Indian nuclear weapons and their delivery systems are not at par with the Russian and American ones in terms of readiness state, and YET analysts concluded that limited nuclear exchange was fairly possible between them during the cold war. You can't just press the "red" button, there is a whole lot of human factor involved.

When you know that you can press it any time you want, and that the enemy cannot stop you from pressing it....then you decide to sit back, relax and think all over it i.e. either to stop the MADness or to continue it. It all depends on the communication channels.

However, if somebody is mad enough to do something like that, he will invite unacceptable damage to India itself too...thus deterring a conventional invasion in the first place.

If you re-read my post again @AhaseebA; you'll understand that the crux of the matter is not what happens after the 'red-button' is pressed; but who will press the 'red-button' first.
That is precisely why; even though Nukes have been around for so long (half a century or more?) that the 'red-button' has not got pressed yet!
And Wars have been taking place, notwithstanding............

 

[The Deterrent]

2000-2500km...

Lets just say that "agar hamaray patakhay ki range Agni-II se kam batai jaati tou masla ho jata"  

If you re-read my post again @AhaseebA; you'll understand that the crux of the matter is not what happens after the 'red-button' is pressed; but who will press the 'red-button' first.
That is precisely why; even though Nukes have been around for so long (half a century or more?) that the 'red-button' has not got pressed yet!
And Wars taking place, notwithstanding............

My argument is that there are 2 red buttons, a big one and a small one.
Because the risk involved is simply too great! And besides presently, except our puny arsenals, the other nuclear nations (G-5) have very well developed arsenals so their hypothetical nuclear exchange would escalate too fast.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

someone post the video of the test please

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Lets just say that "agar hamaray patakhay ki range Agni-II se kam batai jaati tou masla ho jata"  


My argument is that there are 2 red buttons, a big one and a small one.
Because the risk involved is simply too great! And besides presently, except our puny arsenals, the other nuclear nations (G-5) have very well developed arsenals so their hypothetical nuclear exchange would escalate too fast.

I guess the system then works some-what like this: You press the small red button first and then count slowly to hundred; after that if you have not started to glow green or turned into glass and are still breathing, then press the large red button........

Now don't talk about the puny arsenals! You'll break the hearts of the Macho-Men around here.
And who knows if you are really unlucky; then one of them might even press the red button.

 

[SQ8]

Come now; @Oscar; even you are indulging in "shooting the wind" now!
In a Nuke War; there is not any 'gradual escalation' in Nuclear Weapons.
Once somebody's (anybody's) finger on the 'red-button' gets itchy; themn Mayhem simply gets loose. That is what all the 'Armageddon Doctrines' are all abou.t
So finally; it all boils down to 'who has the cast-iron gonads (and the stupidity) to punch the red-button first' . After that, it is all the realm of the unknown and unreal!
You should be savvy enough to know that.

Monsieur, That is exactly what I implied in the post. That the idea of gradual escalation is non existent. Hence the idea of weapons like the Nasr are essentially to bet on the "samson option" that India keeps. When the Nasr is about to go it is foolish to assume that some 150+ Strategic Ballistic missiles and other delivery methods aren't primed to go on 5-10 minutes notice as well.. your side knows this. So the threat of full retaliation on a Nasr is sort of a catch-22.. The whole point of Pakistan's gamble is to bet on that doctrine and the fear of MAD to deter India from ever achieving full objectives. That then, puts India's own policy of full retaliation to the test:

IF we retaliate fully as per our policy to a Nasr then the other side fires everything(which they are ready for anyway) they've got at us as well.. everybody bites the dust.

So in my view IF India is to truly call the bluff of Nasr, then a gradual escalation may be adapted. That will actually throw a wrench into the whole plan in the first place. As you said, there has to be someone with the nutiness to press the trigger.. but if one trigger has been pressed then in the play of the moment the other triggers may be pressed as well if all hell is loose anyway. However, If the nutter presses the trigger and only get a similar response(all the while the rest of the hammering goes on constantly) one of the nutters aides might decide its time to call it quits and not beyond the first boom.

 

[SQ8]

so then why is the question of developing a tnw ? if the strategic weps are already posed to be fired. 
i dont think this should be question of readiness since it really means a first strike from pakistan and safely we can assume the readiness of Indian sfc to detect the attack. so in a nuke war its the question of deterrence follwed by the second strike ability as in reality there in very less possibility for a decapitation strike

It is the most simple gamble possible. Please read my answer to capt popeye. Readiness of SFC is irrelevant because both SFCs are at 5 min warnings. So whether or not you launch the strat nukes first...it gives me 5-10 minutes to launch mine which is more than enough. Now I know that you know that I have more nukes than you(simply because you are bigger and have more places that need to be hit to kill you, along with adding 2-3 extra systems to counter BMDs) ..most will get through to cause unacceptable and possibly irrecoverable damage. You have already said that you will launch all you have on the tac nuke which makes me launch everything as well. Hence, the trigger for a nuclear holocaust is not sitting with me.. but with you. If you do cross a line and the tac nuke does fly.. there will be simultaneous launches of strat weapons. Do you take the gamble and still attack knowing that if you likely do break through conventionally there will be a tac nuke and then no one wins?? 

I guess the system then works some-what like this: You press the small red button first and then count slowly to hundred; after that if you have not started to glow green or turned into glass and are still breathing, then press the large red button........

Now don't talk about the puny arsenals! You'll break the hearts of the Macho-Men around here.
And who knows if you are really unlucky; then one of them might even press the red button.

Ironically through, these are enough to tackle our populations even though they far outnumber the west. Call it the benefit of population density and rapid urbanization. At least we should be happy that our weapons will take more lives per kg of plutonium than any comparable US or Russian system. Cost effective even at mass destruction..got to love the subcontinent.

 

[SQ8]

@Capt.Popeye I think there is seriously incorrect assumption being taken here by both sides on the usage of Nasr. I believe people are assuming that the Nasr flies on day-1 which is hardly the case.

The Nasr flies when the PA operational commanders determine that their last fallback line can no longer be held..much like the Israeli's had determined during the Yom Kippur conflict. By that time, your SFC's have mated the nukes to the delivery mechanisms.. and the tac nukes are mated to systems like the Nasr. Only then do things fly. In my view the whole point of the Indian Military's new strategy was to cross these fallback lines as soon as possible so to create a panic effect that leaves the communications lines severed and hampers any nuclear retaliation along with international diplomatic efforts.. and the whole point of Azm-e-nau was to extend the time these lines could be held and kept while diplomacy works out. The Nasr is the last card of countering this strategy: To Ensure that the prospect of crossing the lines(which will happen regardless) is to costly to wage full scale war in the first place.

 

[cyphercide]

Pakistan's main nuclear stockpile is not tactical but Strategic, no country is that immature to go nuclear for tactical purposes, it just doesn't make sense nasr carrying an TNW is an additional feature not the aim of it, after all it can also carry conventional weapons as well. The main aim of a nuclear weapons program is deterrent plus acquiring the ability for Mutual Annihilations & for that a nation needs strategic weapons & not tactical, nasr is comparable to nirbhay & just like India's weapons program is much more then nirbhay , Pakistan's weapons program is also much more then nasr , it just that nasr have been talked about a lot unlike nirbhay , or got more exposure then its counter part

I hate to break it to you, but a short ranged nuke is still counted as a strategic device in most parts of the world . And India's clarified response is one of massive retaliation, a disproportionate onslaught resulting in "unacceptable damage" to the aggressor. We goaded Pakistan into attacking us in the war for Bangladesh and then we beat them into submission with the complete support of the world.

Mind games are nothing new to us Indians.

 

[Secur]

@AhaseebA Not surely as a gesture of goodwill , right? The point is that by slightly reducing the payload , the range can be increased and it can be done . The range of Shaheen 2 is clear as always that is 2000 km - 2500 km ( even Dr.Samar Mubarakmand confirms the latter figure ) so I still believe that Port Blair can be hit . Anyways that was for the simulations run for a project of ours . 
@cyphercide Same old ? Well I am still waiting for an answer for a good reason to endanger whole Indian population because a couple of invading CBG/Armored Brigade have been nuked somewhere and the usual response to this of " because our doctrine says so " isn't good enough or making sense , simply put it isn't practical . Feel free to prove otherwise . Then why back out from attacking Pakistan , three or counting Kargil four times in a row ? Forgot how to play those old mind games or the deterrence today is simply too great ?