Pakistan-China Joint Exercise "Shaheen VII - 2018"

[Windjammer]

Where did the article say that?

''For the Pakistani side, the J-10C plays the Indian Air Force gust F3 fighter. According to overseas information, the first gust F3 fighter jet ordered by the Indian Air Force from France has already made its first flight and may be delivered around 2020.''

https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2018-12-04/doc-ihmutuec5977727.shtml

 

[Akasa]

''For the Pakistani side, the J-10C plays the Indian Air Force gust F3 fighter. According to overseas information, the first gust F3 fighter jet ordered by the Indian Air Force from France has already made its first flight and may be delivered around 2020.''

https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2018-12-04/doc-ihmutuec5977727.shtml

Pretty sure that's just the opinion of the author or another commentator, even though the J-10C and Rafale are close counterparts to each other. And aren't the first Rafales supposed to be delivered in 2019?

Wait & see is the answer.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

How many of you think that J-10C will be in PAF colors in the near future ? I seem to think just maybe

I really wish PAF buys J-10C and Replace ageing Mirages with it

Chinese media on China Pakistan joint airforce exercise, Pakistan may buy J-10C

https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2018-12-04/doc-ihmutuec5977727.shtml

Hoping this turn out to be true

 

[Hayreddin]

Well, what to do with the pro-F16 or pro-USA lobby in PAF? They won't let it happen.. they have to relocate to USA after their retirements buddy..their children are studying in USA... Patriotism and nationalism is for you and me. These so called defenders of the nation will do anything to settle in USA..because that's their Mecca.

God bless Trump, I hope he bans any ex-service man from Pakistan getting green card of USA.

This is the real issue

 

[Arsalan 345]

here is the challenge. JF-17 inherits a lot already from j-10 program. question will be what additional value will it bring. given block 3 is nearly out of the door will j-10c or + deliver higher tier eg. f-16blk 70+ or even counter Rafale.

very good point.i think think tanks here will answer better.i believe that we need twin engine fighter jet now.i think we never tried twin engine.every plane we fly have have single engine.su-35 can strike deep inside enemy territory.it is a big advantage.also indian su-30 are capable enough to hit pakistani targets deep inside pakistan so this is a very big issue.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

very good point.i think think tanks here will answer better.i believe that we need twin engine fighter jet now.i think we never tried twin engine.every plane we fly have have single engine.su-35 can strike deep inside enemy territory.it is a big advantage.also indian su-30 are capable enough to hit pakistani targets deep inside pakistan so this is a very big issue.

I too love to have twin engine and Fighter like SU-35 will be great addition and SU-35 can counter Rafal too. But problem is As soon as we buy Su-35 USA will impose sanctions on Pakistan …. One more thing SU-35 will cost us way more then J-10 or any single engine bird.
Problem we (PAF) face is , we have to retire 200+ old birds ASAP , for that we need a cost effective way which I am afraid does not exist , Any 4+ Medium Category Single Engine modern bird will cot us hell lot of Money , Technology does not come cheap .
We already have one Cost effective way of replacing older F-6s and F-7s with modern tech and Gen and that is JF-17 , but JF-17 is light bird .
Now we need medium bird to replace 120+ Mirages …………. At max we have 5 years and any induction started now will take 6+ years (if we buy 20 J-10 per years that will take 6 years to reach 120 mark)………
We do have option , we do have time , some how we can arrange money too , But million dollar question is Do we have will???? Do we want to come out of love saga of F-16s????

 

[Arsalan 345]

I too love to have twin engine and Fighter like SU-35 will be great addition and SU-35 can counter Rafal too. But problem is As soon as we buy Su-35 USA will impose sanctions on Pakistan …. One more thing SU-35 will cost us way more then J-10 or any single engine bird.
Problem we (PAF) face is , we have to retire 200+ old birds ASAP , for that we need a cost effective way which I am afraid does not exist , Any 4+ Medium Category Single Engine modern bird will cot us hell lot of Money , Technology does not come cheap .
We already have one Cost effective way of replacing older F-6s and F-7s with modern tech and Gen and that is JF-17 , but JF-17 is light bird .
Now we need medium bird to replace 120+ Mirages …………. At max we have 5 years and any induction started now will take 6+ years (if we buy 20 J-10 per years that will take 6 years to reach 120 mark)………
We do have option , we do have time , some how we can arrange money too , But million dollar question is Do we have will???? Do we want to come out of love saga of F-16s????

i think there are different problems like maintenance cost.yes su-35 is a costly bird and there must be fighter jet to replace 200+mirages.i think cost effective solution is to start another program for a medium category and ask china for assistance.fighter jet which can replace mirages must have modern avionics,AESA radar and other necessary systems.it must be different from jf-17 and it can strike deep.

 

[war&peace]

Pardon, but either give some proof that they are structurally different or you must accept that no-one thrust you or at least has strong doubts. That the B and C-model are different avionics-wise is known, but if you look at the parts, the panel lines, even minor details, they are the same and since the C-series followed time-wise so much closely of thee B-model I don't think that they differ structurally.

I think, he was mistaken and he acknowledged his mistake when another member posted the images of both B and C models so be gentle on him and read his follow up posts.

It is a general principle that within the same model series, structural changes are avoided..only internal components / modules are upgrades like avionics and other subsystems. A minor structural change may occur occasionally but those are subtle. A major structural change means whole redesign process and that means a separate platform/aircraft.

 

[denel]

i think there are different problems like maintenance cost.yes su-35 is a costly bird and there must be fighter jet to replace 200+mirages.i think cost effective solution is to start another program for a medium category and ask china for assistance.fighter jet which can replace mirages must have modern avionics,AESA radar and other necessary systems.it must be different from jf-17 and it can strike deep.

yes, for pure deep strike dedicated fighter, we kept on highlighting the capabilities of jh-7b which appears to be in progress.

 

[MastanKhan]

here is the challenge. JF-17 inherits a lot already from j-10 program. question will be what additional value will it bring. given block 3 is nearly out of the door will j-10c or + deliver higher tier eg. f-16blk 70+ or even counter Rafale.

Hi,

Higher number at a faster pace---well integrated weapons system---and a complete service and overhaul update package on the run---.

Plus the psychological edge---.

 

[FuturePAF]

China who send an unusual huge delegate of planes for this exercise is also trying out their new modern doctrine first time against a foreign air force. J-10C send is also trying to verify their EW doctrine. I believe this exercise, PLAAF will try their very best and maximize all equipment available.

I hope the integrate the PLA's SSF into the exercise. (SSF: Strategic support Force; in charge of PLA latest integration of its Space, EW, and Cyber operations under one command). Also I hope the PLAAF give the PAF a good thrashing with everything they got, and PAF returns the favor. Best to learn your weakness in "Internationalize conditions" in an exercise and rebuild your force with lessons learned rather than learn it on the actual battlefield. If the PAF sees the benefits of J-10C as a Growler, this would be the best time if there ever going to be one.

P.S. In India the USAF and IAF are holding their own exercise. December 2018 is shaping up to be an interesting month in South Asia.

 

[Beast]

I hope the integrate the PLA's SSF into the exercise. (SSF: Strategic support Force; in charge of PLA latest integration of its Space, EW, and Cyber operations under one command). Also I hope the PLAAF give the PAF a good thrashing with everything they got, and PAF returns the favor. Best to learn your weakness in "Internationalize conditions" in an exercise and rebuild your force with lessons learned rather than learn it on the actual battlefield. If the PAF sees the benefits of J-10C as a Growler, this would be the best time if there ever going to be one.

P.S. In India the USAF and IAF are holding their own exercise. December 2018 is shaping up to be an interesting month in South Asia.

Indeed, the next generation warfare will be 4D, land, air, sea and space. Not able to gain any of it in upperhand will result in fatality.

 

[FuturePAF]

P.S. Here is a fun read from RAND about the SSF.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2000/RR2058/RAND_RR2058.pdf

I hope Pakistan can form its own SSF with help from China, Turkey (Recent deal to help PAF build up their Cyber Forces), and Private companies offering services. Cyber is one area Pakistan has to catch up fast in and constantly strive to keep up in.

China can help loan channels on its military satellites, or help build smaller military comms satellites Pakistan can afford. something like this from Lockheed Martin:
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont...-infographic.jpg.pc-adaptive.1920.medium.jpeg
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/aehf.html

https://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/beidou_navigation_graphic_large-879x485.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...hGHG9PAyjci-Al7LhVUHPZ0RqtsbVTmRddJ-J36VjOZ-I
Integrating the communications networks with backup links will help maintain command and control. For example, there is only one VLF array near Karachi for the submarine Fleet. In the event of war, if they array is destroy command authority for release of specially armed Babur cruise missiles will rest with sub commanders. Backups, especially satellite based ones protect from accidental launch. Therefore it is essential to preventing tragedy. In the old days with VHF arrays destroyed, the royal navy for example would try to listen for the BBC. If the Pakistan navy has to listen for Radio Pakistan, hundreds if not thousands of kilometers from home base, they may not get the message, but satellite communications can solve that.

Also This exercise can bring out all types of EW equipment by both sides. The two Air Forces can help each other catch up, considering the use of EW has been shown to be constantly prevalent in the modern battlefield like Syria. EW and how to operate under its threat has to be examined in exercises like this one.

 

[Deino]

yes, for pure deep strike dedicated fighter, we kept on highlighting the capabilities of jh-7b which appears to be in progress.

AFAIK the JH-7B program is dead.

 

[Darwin]

Since the 1st gulf war , i cant think of many incidents in which a western fighter jet was shot down by a russian or any other countries fighter jet. Not talking about ground to air fire.
As seen in the recent shooting down of the russian plane by turkey , russian planes lack awareness as compared to western planes.
How are chinese planes in comparison to russian planes ?