Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[VCheng]

@Oscar @VCheng I guess US not notifying to congress is kind of loophole in thei laws they are trying to exploit. Hence the transfer of AIM-9x and other goodies through Jordan without congress breathing down US administration is very much possible. Have a look at this

Major non-NATO ally

In 1996 major non-NATO allies received additional military and financial benefits when section 2321k was added to Title 22 (Foreign Relations) of the U.S. Code (also known as section 517 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961), which added MNNAs to many of the same exemptions from the Arms Export Control Act that were enjoyed by NATO members

Nations named as major non-NATO allies are eligible for the following benefits:

• 
  
  
  • entry into cooperative research and development projects with the Department of Defense (DoD) on a shared-cost basis
  • participation in certain counter-terrorism initiatives
  • purchase of depleted uranium anti-tank rounds
  • priority delivery of military surplus (ranging from rations to ships)
  • possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases
  • loans of equipment and materials for cooperative research and development projects and evaluations
  • permission to use American financing for the purchase or lease of certain defense equipment
  • reciprocal training
  • expedited export processing of space technology

Of course. I have already posted about Presidential Waivers in times of war that can create such pathways. Whatever the pathway chosen, it must follow the relevant US laws.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think cold war is over!

Hi,

That was just a matter of speech---but still the analysts will be there to see how their equipment performed aginst the others.

 

[araz]

Better for PAF to get these 16 instead of 13 Jordanian, along with 28 US and 21 from Chavez F-16s and upgrade all of them along with the 31 which we have at TAI with PAC engineers and technicians on board.

So that PAF might have till 2008/09 about:
96 F-16sA/B Block-15 MUL-3

That will help them to sustain fleet.

Nishan 101.
I will now start negatively rating any post I find that has acquisitions of equipment in unrealistic numbers. I would also request you to kindly stop this nonsense. It is totally unrealistic. So please beware.

 

[A1Kaid]

Hi,

Members need to realize that this is a massive news------you just increased your fire power / strike capability by 25 - 30 % at least---in just one go---. That has suddenly tilted the balance of power a little bit.

And this news comes now when iaf says that it will have issues if facing war on two fronts. Well they got bigger problems to face now---if paf goes ahead and finds itself another 40---50 more upgraded F16's---the playing field has totally changed.

And what it comes down to is----a fully integrated aircraft and weapons systems that your pilots are familiar with----you cannot put a price on that.

There is nothing like time saved in preparing for war----. If paf can get atleast 50 more of these aircraft----it would mean that they have turned the clock back by at least 5 to 8 years in their favour and put iaf in a quandry.

Hi,


Where did you get this 5-8 years figure from? You really seem confident in your assessment.

 

[Bratva]

Of course. I have already posted about Presidential Waivers in times of war that can create such pathways. Whatever the pathway chosen, it must follow the relevant US laws.

Under Section 36(b) of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA), Congress must be formally notified 30 calendar days before the Administration can take the final steps to conclude a government-to-government foreign military sale of:

Absolutely, M NNA exempted from AECA coupled with possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases is a loophole, that America chose to exercise in recent years... Or else all major deals with Pakistan were notified to congress... Looks like mood is changing at capitol hill

 

[BATMAN]

What! Are you accusing the turks to plant bugs in their own planes to malign good old USA. VCHENG I expected better from you. Or are you suggesting that some other govt will plant bugs in a crashed plane which fhe turks themselves have salvaged from a crash site.
In any case homing devices and probably IFF not recognizing US planes is about the extent of the kill switch that LM would plant.

 

[Bratva]

What! Are you accusing the turks to plant bugs in their own planes to malign good old USA. VCHENG I expected better from you. Or are you suggesting that some other govt will plant bugs in a crashed plane which fhe turks themselves have salvaged from a crash site.
In any case homing devices and probably IFF not recognizing US planes is about the extent of the kill switch that LM would plant.

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NSA is already installing surveillance switches on many devices, what's stopping them from implanting Kill switches?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@

Congrats to you all guys :wave:

Still more stuff ahead to come ;)? ......

well we really need transport and gunship helicopters at the moment and specially from Arab brother countries we would love to have grand Muftis or Imams visiting our country and giving Jummah Khutba in our grand mosques about the Takfiri terrorism

Pakistanis see our Arab scholars and Imam with great reverence and respect and their advice over the TV and Mosques will really help the general public that is constantly bombarded by the Al Qaeda / Taliban propaganda... sadly our population has less respect and trust for our own scholars they are either dismissed for their controversy or being servants to government.

I will like you to write a thread about how your King, the prices, Scholars, teachers and Imams etc have taught the general public and tackled the issue of terrorism because I know majority has effectively dismissed the Al Qaeda ideology

Keeping track of Turkish F-16s would be something many countries would find desirable: Israel, Russia, Greece, for example. USA has better ways to achieve the same, and more, without discrete and discoverable bugs.

day when we will make an engineering marvel all by ourselves then we will understand the value of our own work and will understand why USA goes at lengths to protect its intellectual property and knowledge.

sorry for the lack of an example but imagine someone buys a book of a famous author and plagiarizes it and then tries to sell it as his own work that is pretty much in the category of theft and deceit

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,


Where did you get this 5-8 years figure from? You really seem confident in your assessment.

Hi,

If we got the J10 B's in the next couple of years----it will take us 4---6 years to integrate them---have a ground and flight crew fully trained----have an operational manual for strike and air superiority---.

So---the induction of a sqdrn of F16's automatically fills in the 'hole'----you have everything in place---you have flight crew---you have ground crew---you have spare parts---you have weapons and support systems all in place---fully operational for 'monday morning open for business'.

I hope we have learnt somethinmg from integrating the JF 17---. It is all about time----there is no short cut to integration for a brand new aircraft.

 

[Asian.Century]

Better for PAF to get these 16 instead of 13 Jordanian, along with 28 US and 21 from Chavez F-16s and upgrade all of them along with the 31 which we have at TAI with PAC engineers and technicians on board.

So that PAF might have till 2008/09 about:
96 F-16sA/B Block-15 MUL-3

That will help them to sustain fleet.

Best is to upgrade the Jordanian 13 in turkey to blk 50/52 along 31 paf f16s already in TAI. Without mid life update, and only FALCON STAR or OCU or ADF, this does not meet paf requirements.

 

[Viper0011.]

Why must it be such a binary division? There are many shades of gray in between that are far more useful and undetectable.

Not sure if you'll ever understand the guarantee that comes with Made in America and manufactured by LM, GD, Lockheed or Boeing, etc. They are not in the business of selling crappy planes. Tracking mechanism is fine, messing with the capability equals to bad reputation and a super power's name that's always stood by its ally (as long as allies do the same too).

You are forgetting, your own guys sell for cheap to everyone in the market. Remember the airbase attacks by Talibastards??? Insiders gave them whatever they asked for. So, I think ANYONE who wants to track your assets can pay your people on these locations and can put whatever devices there. I don't think it needs to be announced and reported as to who did it. If these talibastards can hit your AWACS almost at will, planting a device in secrecy is nothing. So why would the US want bad press when anyone can virtually track anything they want to???

 

[Viper0011.]

What is the difference between the transfer from Jordon to Pakistan and Pakistan to Bangladesh?
Same FMF item going from one nation to another. Pakistan's sale had to go through congress.

The difference may be a Presidential Waiver. In Pakistan's case for BD, they probably went through the process through DCSA. But here, there may have been a waiver issued a while ago and thus, its not in the news as that may have happened a while ago. I am just explaining the process. Not sure what the case is here....

I wonder how will India react to this?

I don't think that matters at this point if the waiver or approval's been given by the United States Government. Plus, I can't see how 13 or even 30 jets like these can be a threat to India. India's has an array of good jets so this isn't a step towards Pakistan gaining any superiority over them.

Still more stuff ahead to come ? ......

Do any of you know how many F-16's have been MLU'd in Turkey?
@Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Zarvan @BATMAN @Aeronaut @Luftwaffe @Oscar @pakistan @Pakistanis

 

[VCheng]

................

when day when we will make an engineering marvel all by ourselves then we will understand the value of our own work and will understand why USA goes at lengths to protect its intellectual property and knowledge.

sorry for the lack of an example but imagine someone buys a book of a famous author and plagiarizes it and then tries to sell it as his own work that is pretty much in the category of theft and deceit

That day is quite a ways away Sir.

Not sure if you'll ever understand the guarantee that comes with Made in America and manufactured by LM, GD, Lockheed or Boeing, etc. They are not in the business of selling crappy planes. Tracking mechanism is one, messing with the capability equals to bad reputation and a super power's name that's always stood by its ally (as long as allies do the same too)................

Actually, I understand both USA and Pakistan than many here.

(Also, I have a pretty good understanding of matters that I speak about. )

With that said, I have always said that the F-16 is a great aircraft for PAF's needs. Equally true is the fact that there are many layers of complexity in the systems and software that hone the platform for its remarkable performance. There are also many secrets embedded within that complexity. That is all.





PS: You should fix your flags. Perhaps @WebMaster can help?

 

[MastanKhan]

There are also many secrets embedded within that complexity. That is all.

VCheng,

These comments are neither here or there---- they are meaningless.

 

[VCheng]

These comments are neither here or there---- they are meaningless.

I am not about to say anything more specific than that. Chogy's warning was no joke.

Absolutely, M NNA exempted from AECA coupled with possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases is a loophole, that America chose to exercise in recent years... Or else all major deals with Pakistan were notified to congress... Looks like mood is changing at capitol hill

No, the mood remains adverse on Capitol Hill. Really adverse.