Pakistan Beware, They Are Cornering China!

[kvLin]

KvLin you do realize that there is quite a lot of censorship in Chinese Media??
Your rights are curtailed(esp on comparing with democratic free nations)

I have no problem to admit that there is media censorship in China.
and if you're impling it's crystal virgin for indian media, you better tell me a joke instead.

media in hongkong are independent,because of the different system there.
paying a big buck every year in mainland China, you get connections to foreign media like CNN,NHK... coz the digital TV doesn't induct any foreign media by now.

I've been watching CNN news for years, though not in regular.

btw, in a democratic country, if only 32% families have TV, how do you ensure their rights of information through TV media?

94% chinese familie have TV,and they can switch it over to Phoenix if they dislike the state run CCTV.

what is democracy??
In layman terms it means a govt whose rep are chosen by the people and who are responsible to the people...
If the govt is lazy,inefficient,weak etc. it doesn't mean it is undemocratic...
if the people are poor illiterate etc. it doesn't mean the govt is undemocratic...

let's suppose the govt is very very lazy and weak, despite it's people's choose while not minding anything else except freedom.then one will probably have a democracy like this:

go out voting with only tree leaves covering his body, pick up garbage around him when he is angry, close his eyes when he needs sleep, rush to the riverside when he is thirsty... what a paradise!

being a democracy, India suffers from more serious corruptions than China does. and spend much bigger budget% out of your taxpayers' money on Russian weaponary.

saying above,I'm not accusing democratic system like India has adpoted at all, instead I endorse it and your efforts of this regard. I mean, one can't take democracy as all talk. and it doesn't necessarily link to low efficiency.

I like cocky Chinese...

only when there's someone pretending to be a know-all person and thus stick his petit head everywhere on this forum.

otherwise, I would always like to be a sincere discussant to all.

 

[kvLin]

KV Lin,

You have posted a series of posts and some are one liners which are hilarious!

That apart, let me satiate your desire for enlightenment.

So you have nothing substantial to state in defence of your Yahoo post where you reproduced four anonymous answers to back up your contention. So be it!

next time before you reply, dont drink too much---where is my Yahoo post?

To expect more of course would be wrong of me from a person who states that there are 2100 TV channels in China and yet ominously avoid indicating ownership!!

do I have to answer a question that was never asked before?
go check TV channels in Hongkong and Macao, mostly privately owned.

In so far as photographs being an indicator of one’s friendship or sharing of ideology, and it being a sureshot alliance, if one wishes one could also show photographs of Rumsfeld with Saddam or Nixon or Bush with the Chinese Communists. Would that make these ultra conservative right wing politicians, Communists or that the US shares the same ideology as Saddam?

noisy in vain. check it again what Dalai Lama had/has not done to his criminal friends, if you could even take a photo with Bin Ladin.

I find that you are silent about Chou en Lai being educated in Japan, and if that means, he was a Japanese collaborator. By your logic and wizard presentation, I presume you agree that the first Chinese Communist Prime Minister was, in fact, a Japanese collaborator who took the Japanese Emperor to be God as per the Japanese tradition then!!

you'll find out that I've been trying hard to keep silent about your garbage dumps in indian cities.
Zhou enlai only had a short stay in Japan (July 1918- January 1919) coz he failed to obtain the Chinese governmetnal study grant. and you said
"Zhou enlai took Japanese emperor to be God?"

back it with facts, or pls stop throwing those garbage at the most respected person in China.

You also have deigned not to comment on the Swatika being used by ALL religions and that it does not necessarily mean that it is a sole representation of the Nazis or that because the Nazis used a reverse Swastika, all religions are Nazis!!

Our democracies maybe flawed, but we are treated as humans,

Indeed, there is poverty. Am I to understand that China is a land overflowing with milk and honey?

at least, no crisis of hanger since the lastest 30 years.
for the rest, dont always manage to "enlighten" others with flat common sense, which wont make you any closer to the truth.

Care to comment on the repeated mine accidents and the state of poverty in China as reported by the UN?

yes, I'll wait till you go through the whole UNDP Aisa 2002 report. or it'll be wasting of time debating with you.

but be aware:

India ranks 93 among 116 developing countries in the global hunger index. India’s score on the index for 2003, the latest year for which data is available, was 25.73, worse than Sudan at 27.20 but better than Burkina Faso (25.80). The index, comprising three indices - child malnutrition, child mortality and estimates of the proportion of people who are calorie deficient - ranks countries on a 100-point scale, with 0 being the best and 100 being the worst.

nearly 50 percent of the world’s hungry live in India. Around 35 percent of India’s population - 350 million - is considered food-insecure, consuming less than 80 percent of minimum energy requirements.
Http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1058371

 

[gpit]

i never said that there is small gap between the poor and the rich or indian cities are tidy and clean, you are saying that. But the poor can complain to the gov't, and if the gov't does not listen the poor has the power to put any party that will listen to them. And because the economic growth of India is growing rapidly lots things from income distribution to basic human needs are changing rapidly, but because of the population being so large the pace seems slow to an outsider. To Indians they see changes and benefits that are coming with the indian growth.

"if the gov't does not listen the poor has the power to put any party that will listen to them." Lol!

After many revolutions of the door, are your people's demands answered?

Can you tell us, why after your poor put a listening party in power, your Human Development Index falls two position per UN reports?

 

[gpit]

Lin,


If Rediff is wrong and you are very upset. just buy it!

That is free economy!!

International journalists were allowed in with Chinese minders and to a monastery that is pro Chinese and yet there were monks crying and said that the Chinese govt is suppressive!

I saw it on BBC.

If freedom to you means free to lie, shame on you.

 

[gpit]

Where there is no Freedom, as in China, it is a serfdom.

Only a part of China - Tibet - was under serfdom imposed by Dalai Lama, which has been abolished by Mao, if you are literate enough and care to read the history.

If one cannot have personal liberties, freedom of thought and speech or the right to move to anywhere within the country without a govt permit, what is it then?

In the 1958, Mao set up a residency permit system defining where people could work, and classified an individual as "rural" or "urban" worker. A worker seeking to move from the country to urban areas to take up non-agricultural work would have to apply through the relevant bureaucracies. The number of workers allowed to make such moves was tightly controlled. People who worked outside their authorized domain or geographical area would not qualify for grain rations, employer-provided housing, or health care.

In a democracy, you can go where you want and when you want. The govt does not control your movement!

While you excavate what happened half a century ago, take a look at what is happening now:

1) Today, in a world of material abundance, people in death-garden of democracy, hundreds tea-pickers are still starved to death.Tea pickers starve to death - Times Online

2)Today, in a world of technological advance, a state called Uttar Pradesh in a democratic country 40000 pregnant women died yearly of negligence. Infochange India News Features Why 40,000 pregnant women die in UP every year

3) Why people under "serfdom" (so named by a "Chinese friendly" person) are overwhelmingly happier than those under democratic system? [URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-lifestyle-happiness-net"[/URL]

In democracy, people have the freedom to starve to death, have the freedom to be neglected to death, have the freedom to be unhappy... Well said.

Do all these facts mean a kind of democracy is in fact worse than the "serfdom"?

 

[SPI]

"if the gov't does not listen the poor has the power to put any party that will listen to them." Lol!

After many revolutions of the door, are your people's demands answered?

Can you tell us, why after your poor put a listening party in power, your Human Development Index falls two position per UN reports?

What revolutions are you talking about. we are not china or pakistan. And talking about poor people you have to live in India just to see. Let me give a great example. In India there is shortage of pilots (600-1000). Why do you think there is shortage of pilots because more people are flying, where is this money coming from. Also just yesterday TATA bought Jaguare and Land Rover from Ford Motor company where did they get the money. India's gdp is 1 trillion today as the economy grows the lifestyle gets better and better. And i know you cannot stand that. Thats why you can only site un reports and laugh about it.

 

[SPI]

what else can be compared to China, except your label of democracy. I know you have the freedom to let nearly 1/3 of your people under poverty line, and the freedom to let nearly a 40% in illiteracy. that's really super.

Oh lots. 1/3 poverty line and 40% illiteracy rate. Just 15 years ago those figures were double, so that would mean growth is making changes. What about 15 years from know. And also i been meaning to say this because you keep hacking at this 40% illiteracy rate. Do you know in China literacy is considered when you know how to read, That is what is consider literate in China.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What revolutions are you talking about. we are not china or pakistan. And talking about poor people you have to live in India just to see. Let me give a great example. In India there is shortage of pilots (600-1000). Why do you think there is shortage of pilots because more people are flying, where is this money coming from. Also just yesterday TATA bought Jaguare and Land Rover from Ford Motor company where did they get the money. India's gdp is 1 trillion today as the economy grows the lifestyle gets better and better. And i know you cannot stand that. Thats why you can only site un reports and laugh about it.

you are utterly stupid!!
only the rich can survive in democracy while the poor suffers.. where as in China under communism, every one is treated equally! A Chinese officer rides his bicycle to his work just like rest of the population!
in india... the rich enjoys luxury life while the poor man starves to death!

woooowww india's GDP is 1 trillion! 1 trillion?
CHINA
GDP (Nominal) (2007) $3.42 trillion (ranked 4th)
GDP (PPP) (2006) $10.21 trillion (ranked 2nd)

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

KVLin

One is not magnanimous when one cannot refute a fact.

It is not only media that are State Controlled leading to mind control or brainwashing, every aspect of life is State Controlled. A robotic existence at best!

As mentioned earlier, movement of personnel within China or deciding on where a citizen is to reside is under the control of the State!

No political thought is permitted except that of the Communist Party. Is it feasible that there can be no other views amongst the population? If indeed it is not feasible, it only goes to indicate the high degree of regimentation, mind control and a thoroughly robotic existence.

Hardly a path that a human being should exist!

But then, there are all sorts in the world. Some are allowed to think and some are engineered to obey without the luxury of using one’s own mind or exercising choice!

Hong Kong may be able to see foreign channel, but that is not the point. Its destiny is dictated by China.

This maybe interesting for you to learn as to what is up in Hong Kong:

CHINA FORMALLY shut the door on Hong Kong self-governance yesterday when it issued an interpretation of the territory's constitution that dashed hopes the Communist Party might tolerate political reform.
The decision by the standing committee of the National People's Congress at a meeting in Beijing affected two clauses in the former British colony's Basic Law or constitution determining how its leaders and lawmakers will be chosen, in effect ruling out any real say for Hong Kong people.
Beijing now not only has the right to veto any proposed electoral change, but also the authority to decide whether changes are needed, which means it can put off political reform for as long as it likes
China slams the door on Hong Kong democracy | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET.com

In India, apart from the domestic TV sets, there are the Panchayat TV sets, where the people can see TV.

In China, there is but only one alternate channel as per you i.e. Phoenix and like Google, if they don’t play ball, they can be banned. In India, we see not only Indian private channels, but also most international channels, including PTV, QTV, Al Jazeerah, CCTV and the like. Thus, there is no mind control and all are free to their choice!! Just compare the options between India and China!

Indeed, democracy could mean what you write:
go out voting with only tree leaves covering his body, pick up garbage around him when he is angry, close his eyes when he needs sleep, rush to the riverside when he is thirsty... what a paradise

But it is still a paradise than toiling at the crack of a whip, ordered to sleep, drink and eat on a bugle call and barred in a jail like atmosphere!
Tienanmen Square would not have happened if the human will was free in China!

I don’t drink, which maybe your pastime, for the simple reason that I have no sorrows to drown!

Whether it is Yahoo or Google or whatever, I did not go back to check its origin since it was unmitigated garbage and it was adequate to just connect the same.

In so far as using photographs to show alliance, you seem to have seen the light that the contention is bogus! I have not posted photos to make wild claims. You did and so what is the brouhaha about bin Laden? You want to post a photo of bin Laden and the Dalai Lama? Go ahead.

In so far as Chou en Lai’s example is concerned, it was to indicate to you how bogus and ridiculous is your claim that photos or chance association is not valid a mode to do character assassination of world leaders. You fail to even understand irony!

As far as the Swastika is concerned, you failed to use, what you call “flat common sense” when you allude that because the photo of the Dalai Lama had swastikas, he was a Nazi. Indeed, you can to prove a point to suit your convenience can manufacture bogus details and give convoluted interpretation. I don’t grudge you that since that is how the Peoples”
Daily does.

It is no big deal about India and its problems.

All know of it, since we allow all to come, see and report on India. Our own newspapers have no hesitation to report faultlines.

China does not allow. It is a closed country and so nothing goes out that is not censored by the Big Brother govt.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If freedom to you means free to lie, shame on you.

Freedom means there is no restriction on anyone.

No Big Brother.

If there are lies, then there is the Courts and libel laws!!

No one can be frog marched as under totalitarian regimes.

Nor are there Re-education Camps through forced labour!

 

[gpit]

...

what is democracy??
In layman terms it means a govt whose rep are chosen by the people and who are responsible to the people...
If the govt is lazy,inefficient,weak etc. it doesn't mean it is undemocratic...
if the people are poor illiterate etc. it doesn't mean the govt is undemocratic...

To adopt a system is not for the sake of adopting the system. It is meant to enhance the people’s life to the best with a system that fits the social soil.

If democracy creates a bad government that can’t serve the people, what’s the use of democracy? Why don’t pick up a system that can serve people better?

I like cocky Chinese...

Only the cockies believe there is only one best system.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Only a part of China - Tibet - was under serfdom imposed by Dalai Lama, which has been abolished by Mao, if you are literate enough and care to read the history.

It appears that you cannot comprehend Engish.

I had written "Where there is no Freedom, as in China, it is a serfdom."

It means if people live in a country where there is No Individual Freedom, then it is serfdom!

While you excavate what happened half a century ago, take a look at what is happening now:

1) Today, in a world of material abundance, people in death-garden of democracy, hundreds tea-pickers are still starved to death.Tea pickers starve to death - Times Online

2)Today, in a world of technological advance, a state called Uttar Pradesh in a democratic country 40000 pregnant women died yearly of negligence. Infochange India News Features Why 40,000 pregnant women die in UP every year

3) Why people under "serfdom" (so named by a "Chinese friendly" person) are overwhelmingly happier than those under democratic system? [URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-lifestyle-happiness-net"[/URL]

In democracy, people have the freedom to starve to death, have the freedom to be neglected to death, have the freedom to be unhappy... Well said.

Do all these facts mean a kind of democracy is in fact worse than the "serfdom"?

Thank your stars that India is a democracy with a free media and where foreigners can travel at will. That is why you know what is happening or allegedly happening in India.

One rather live in poverty than be a robot and life controlled to the last detail or a bird in a gilded cage!!

Compare that with the latest uprising in Tibet, Foreigners and international journalists were bundled out and none knows what is happening now in Tibet. One conducted tour was organised and the monastery most loyal to the Chinese govt was showcased. Even there the monks broke down and cried and said that China is lying about Tibet. And the journalists were bundled out!! They also saw burnt out houses in the Tibetan sectors of Lhasa. Check the AP report.

 

[gpit]

Freedom means there is no restriction on anyone.

...

No wonder people are freely killing each other in the land of Bharat.

Then enjoy it.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

"if the gov't does not listen the poor has the power to put any party that will listen to them." Lol!

After many revolutions of the door, are your people's demands answered?

Can you tell us, why after your poor put a listening party in power, your Human Development Index falls two position per UN reports?

No, I am sure you enjoyed the bounties of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution!

 

[SPI]

you are utterly stupid!!
only the rich can survive in democracy while the poor suffers.. where as in China under communism, every one is treated equally! A Chinese officer rides his bicycle to his work just like rest of the population!
in india... the rich enjoys luxury life while the poor man starves to death!

woooowww india's GDP is 1 trillion! 1 trillion?
CHINA
GDP (Nominal) (2007) $3.42 trillion (ranked 4th)
GDP (PPP) (2006) $10.21 trillion (ranked 2nd)

I feel sorry for you, So explain to me how does your pakistan system work, from the lastest news isn't pakistains happy that democracy is back. And why do pakistanis keep siting chines gdp when every any indian talks about theres. Is it because Chines gdp is also part of pakistan gdp.