Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

[MastanKhan]

Bro...Im very happy that your thinking is very positive,constructive...but in the field of technology there is no short cut to experience(what I heard or seen from technical pplz). If we have to survive with respect then there is only one way...we dont have to look at US,France or any country for our defence requirement. We have the same brain..same education...but why we cant manufacture or invent anything ? It is cuz we know that we will get it from US, or France or anywhere else.This was making us lazy and not to use our abilities to manufacture by ourselves. Do the US, France or Germany buy from some other countries? No, because they know that there is nobody who can deliver them any advance technology..so they try themselves..do some research and create new technology...This is so simple..Our policy makers for money/comission want to buy and try to get some kickbaks ..thats so simple..and hence we are left as dependants ( no independence).
We Muslims are the people to rule the world not to be depending on anybody . God is with us . We have guidance(Quran) directly from him. We are seeing miracles right now in Afghanistan that poor pplz are beatingup the world biggest super power...Isnt this enough for us to open our eyes?...Look at south Korea ,They came to Pak in Bhuttos time to get idea for economic development(five year plan). Now they are designing 1000MW Nuclear reactors for Dubai. They even beat the big giants of the western world in the bid to win the contract.Not even china is capable to design 1000MW reactors for itself..The secret is so simple they tried and they got it developed.."Try try again". Reserach/Technology is nothing but to try and look for the results.
Over here what we do ..we buy some stuff from west and feel happy to get the candyz..after some years again we look for some more candyz cuz the old ones becomes obsolete and we need new technology. Cuz our old Augustas dont work as compared to new technology...Now In case of U214 when we will get it in next 5 years we need it to be upgraded cuz in the meantime Germany will be far ahead of us and this cycle will go over and over ..and we will be lagging behind them for ever ....
What I believe we are to rule the world ...how ?...Its so simple just try to develop..and we will lead the world in technology....Our standard of competition should not be just India but the current tech super powers(US/Russia/Germany)...We should develop our plans that we should develop the technology far superior than their technology. We should give the target to our brightest brains..or scientists and engineerz...give them the money/funds what we spend on buying from the west..Inshallah we will be amazed with the results...Our all defence needs will be solved within short period of time. Our all policies for defence development should be made by the engineerz and scientists..cuz they know they way to develop technology...not the other pplz. example is Dr Abdul Qadeer..
Regarding why im so optimistic because our engineerz or military is doing their best on their behalf and God helps those who help themselevs..Alhamdolillah..their progress is going good.
Thats why i most of the time say "dont worry everything is going good"...

Another thing to tell you the truth some pplz have seen dreamz that in very near future we are going to rule the world inshallah...and our military strategy is going in synchronism with the dreams pplz seen.
The present situation of the world super powers is going in synchronism with the dreams...So Alhamdolillah everything is going fine...till we will see with our own eyes.If Allah was not helping us we would have been in stone age or most probably in graveyards as the world's biggest angel power(US) was going to reward us.
I hope you got my points to some extents...its possible i see some things differently than other pplz

Sir,

This is just a feel good post----with over optimism and some religious zeal.

Isn't it about time that the pak realized that they are neither the men that their european counterparts are----and nor they have the brains to come close.

The bottomline is THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING---it is easier to say that we can compete with them or we can do this or that----and the world says----if you were somebody---it would reflect on your daily life and living.

Getting stuff from the west or east has nothing to do with us being lazy---you are coming up with another excuse for our incompetence.


Germany and france and the U S are the pioneers of engineering technology of the past century---they are a men of a different breed---energy and resource----. There was a different kind of fire that burnt in their hearts and souls to make them do what they designed a 100 years ago.

A nation like pakistan and men and women of pakistan need to be put to shame and humiliation for living below the level of ordinary for the longest period of time---.


You bring God into this picture----you think that the west doesnot have a God on their side----do you think for a moment that their God doesnot want them to succeed---.

As the west is technically superior so according to your comments (and Allah forgive me ) then their God is also superior to ours as well.

So---according to you----now it has become the war of the Gods and the belief.

Now, if we go according to your logic----then our God has been on the losing end for the longest time---in wars---in the field of hockey---in the game of squash---in the cricket field---in the political arena-------and their God has been a winner most of the time---so, what does that mean----think about it.

Bottomline---it has nothing to do with the Gods---but it has every thing to do with the character of the man.

We can't leave our problems on the GODS---OUR TIME ON EARTH DOES NOT EVEN REGISTER AS A BLIP ON THEIR RADAR SCREEN----.

The GOD has been here since eternity----billions of years----our lifetime is not even a flash of light on His vision.

We are are periliously living close to the stone age---just move away from the shinning lights of the city----one major catastrophy and we are there.

In order for you to rule the world----( there is no such thing as ruling the world for us---what an illusion that you are creating )----dude----just please fix your household issues and the neighbourhood issues and learn to live a peaceful and energetic life and sc-rew the RULE THE WORLD SYNDROME.


Don't you get it by now---there is no ALLAH left in pakistan anymore---did you treally think that our God is so incomeptent to run a country of misfits as it is of today----.


Do you realy believe that Allah is living in the stinking ****** streets of majority pakistan---where crime is rampant and people can't walk to their hom,es safely in the dark opf the night and sometimes in the daylight. Where the sanctity of life has little meaning and honour and value doesnot mean much---.

Look around my man---pakistan is a Godless country---they worship a different God and this God is not the same as that of our Prophet Mohammad's----we follow a different prophet other than prophet Mohammad.

My good kid---you don't see anything differently than most other pakistanis----what you see is what most other pakistanis see---an illusion---an illusion without substance---and that is a tragedy.

This post is not to insult the poster and viewers of similiar thoughts and ideology----this post is to tell you that you are living what the japanese ambassador said about about pakistan a few years ago.

You are not travelling on the path of success---the direction that has been chsoen is the direction of faliure---.

 

[Super Falcon]

hope deal should be signed in few days as we are already short on our subs requirement of the navy 2 years have been past since our ghazi retired only 3 agosta are only subs who fully can operate pakistan navy requirements are atleast of 10 to 12 subs on which we only have 3

 

[Tajdar adil]

China dont have many nuclear subs like US or Russia to give lease it has only one type 92 and 3-4 type 94 and 5 SSN so it will be difficult for china to lease these subs...

Yes he is right we dont need any thing on lease from any country but Pakistan do any thing for its Defence.If Indian made Nucleare sub then Pakistan also goes for it.

 

[Tajdar adil]

well sir agosta is good but we need something like U 214 which has stealth features and can dive more than Agosta and can fire underwater harpoon etc agosta can firee to harpoon but U 214 generation ahead of the agosta and building sub is not like a building tank in which you can add few things it need new designs etc

Is U 214 better then Agosta sir.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

With the recent statements of Angela Merkil---seems like the U 214 is out of our reach as well.

So---I guess chinese it is for our navy.

And yes---tactically the U 214 is superior to the agosta----.

 

[ANG]

Hi, also to follow up on Mr. MK's point. How can Pakistan afford more Agostas, Marlins, or U214s? China is the only country that will offer Pakistan long term soft concessional loans. That is the only hope the PN has of getting new subs. I hope they do buy a few Chinese subs, in addition to Type 054A Frigates. Take care.

 

[Super Falcon]

no doubt U 214 is better than agosta in all aspects

 

[Dazzler]

Song class for PN is unlikely as our Agusta90bs outclass them by quite a margin. PN seem very interested in Yuan class (based on kilo design with British sterling AIP tech, new digital combat data system, sonars, longer endurance than Agusta and better anti ship missiles with longer range). Designation 039A, a PN specific modified Yuan is the most likely.

 

[Bossman]

Don't you get it by now---there is no ALLAH left in pakistan anymore---did you treally think that our God is so incomeptent to run a country of misfits as it is of today----.


Do you realy believe that Allah is living in the stinking ****** streets of majority pakistan---where crime is rampant and people can't walk to their hom,es safely in the dark opf the night and sometimes in the daylight. Where the sanctity of life has little meaning and honour and value doesnot mean much---.

Look around my man---pakistan is a Godless country---they worship a different God and this God is not the same as that of our Prophet Mohammad's----we follow a different prophet other than prophet Mohammad.

Mastaan,

Your arrogant sermonising really gets the prize this time. Who gave you the right to look down and make such generalization against the country and it people? What qualifies you to call every one Godless? Only God can make that judgement. Do you think you are God? You have been brown nosing the whiteman too long in California that some of thier arrogance has rubbed off on you. You are showing the same sort of arrogance and contempt that the Persians showed towards the Arabs during the times of the Prophet (PBUH), yet within a couple of decades they were conquered by the very people who they called lizard eaters for their poverty. God is everywhere, it is in the slums of Lyari, its in the poor villages of punjab or the inaccesible hamlets of Kashmir. God does not need big boulevards or fancy buildings. You have very little to contribute to this forum except as an outlet for your own failures in life and your insecurities derived from a lifetime of servitude to the whiteman.

 

[ANG]

Dear All, can we kindly please remove the debate and mention of religion in this forum. This a defense related forum, and I personally do not want to know about anyones religious views as they are personal and should stay that way. After all, we are discussing submarine procurement in this thread. Take care.

 

[Super Falcon]

for how long we keep talking on subs when do we sign the deal

 

[truthseeker2010]

So whats on the table Song class and Yuan Class.

 

[farhan_9909]

We need SUbs now..what ever they are sign the deal for atleast 5.

be it chineese or german we need 5 more subs till 2015

 

[truthseeker2010]

In my opinion 5 can only be possible if
simultaneously build locally as well as purchase from foreign firms
or buy used ones.
But 3 is a greater probability.

 

[MastanKhan]

Bossman,

When you go to a doctor and wants to check your relfexes and he hits your elbow or knee joint with a rubber mallet---and your legs jumps up or your arm reflexes---that is what it reminds me off.

Is this like a lover's quarrel between you and me---before we kiss and make up.

Or is it that I have stolen your cow, that you are mad at me---or is it that each and everyone of my post posts acts as a catalyst on your belief---the moment you read them---there is an extreme reaction.

The reason I say that there is no God in pakistan----for the reason---look at the universe and its existence---each and everyone thing is moving around in harmony to co-exist. The creator of this universe has created a masterpiece that shows in the cohesive existence of its creation---.

Now as for the subs----we are again between a rock and a hard spot---it took us years to assess the capabilities of the german sub---now that we had decided, there were other mitigating factors that came enforce which stopped the transaction.

Seems like time is our worst enemy----we have issues over the long run. Now, it comes down to the chinese subs---.

Judge Chaudhry has really killed our economic welbeing----he never anticipated the financial loss and the consequences the nation would suffer for his fight to get back his seat.

The arabs did what they did, because they were men of character and honor----they provided justice to the weak and the poor---without prejudice and default.

In a country of God / Allah, it provides justice to the weak, the meek, the old, the young, those without resource without prejudice and remorse.

A Godless country is a shameless country----where the weak and the meek never get any justice---where boys are molested---women gang raped and the perforators of the crime walk the street openly thumping their chest regarding the misdeeds---without any fear of reprisals from any court of law---or with any fear of the our Lord Allah.

When such conditions exist in a nation----there is only darkness of the soul left in that nation---.

Where every other muslim man---profanes the mother of another muslim---or the profanes the sister of other muslim---or threatens to sodmize another muslim---or his little brothers and sons---where profanity is a way of life---every sentence is filled with vulgarity---that is a sign of a nation who has lost his God and his prophet.

Ask the poor villgers in punjab where the God is when their little boys are molested by the strongmen---then their women molested by the strong---then they complain to the landlord and he laughs at them---and when the poor talk about God and his justice----the powerful laugh at it and tell the poor---go search for your God and let me know when you find Him----and they claim to be the god---Bossman----you are living in an illusion.