Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

[khurasaan1]

i am sorry brother but i tend to disagree with you.
i have noticed many time that your posts are very optimistic. that is good, but what troubles me is that they are almost always a bit too much, please no offense!

i mean to say that Allah have given us mind and power to sort our problems, we need to use Brain to sort out issue we face. i have noticed that whenever someone points to a problematic point, either be it blockade of JF17 engines of dumping U214 deal! all you say is Allah Allah karo, Pakistan ZindaAbad!!
boss we need to do brain storming, we are all hear to use or head, to seek information and share knowledge. you attitude often restrict constructive discussion to proceed.

said all this, i hope that you are not offended. i beleive that Allah will help us, but, i also say we have to help our selves!!
you know..
God help those who help themselves!!

i hope you understand!
sorry if i hurt your feelings!

regards!

Bro...Im very happy that your thinking is very positive,constructive...but in the field of technology there is no short cut to experience(what I heard or seen from technical pplz). If we have to survive with respect then there is only one way...we dont have to look at US,France or any country for our defence requirement. We have the same brain..same education...but why we cant manufacture or invent anything ? It is cuz we know that we will get it from US, or France or anywhere else.This was making us lazy and not to use our abilities to manufacture by ourselves. Do the US, France or Germany buy from some other countries? No, because they know that there is nobody who can deliver them any advance technology..so they try themselves..do some research and create new technology...This is so simple..Our policy makers for money/comission want to buy and try to get some kickbaks ..thats so simple..and hence we are left as dependants ( no independence).
We Muslims are the people to rule the world not to be depending on anybody . God is with us . We have guidance(Quran) directly from him. We are seeing miracles right now in Afghanistan that poor pplz are beatingup the world biggest super power...Isnt this enough for us to open our eyes?...Look at south Korea ,They came to Pak in Bhuttos time to get idea for economic development(five year plan). Now they are designing 1000MW Nuclear reactors for Dubai. They even beat the big giants of the western world in the bid to win the contract.Not even china is capable to design 1000MW reactors for itself..The secret is so simple they tried and they got it developed.."Try try again". Reserach/Technology is nothing but to try and look for the results.
Over here what we do ..we buy some stuff from west and feel happy to get the candyz..after some years again we look for some more candyz cuz the old ones becomes obsolete and we need new technology. Cuz our old Augustas dont work as compared to new technology...Now In case of U214 when we will get it in next 5 years we need it to be upgraded cuz in the meantime Germany will be far ahead of us and this cycle will go over and over ..and we will be lagging behind them for ever ....
What I believe we are to rule the world ...how ?...Its so simple just try to develop..and we will lead the world in technology....Our standard of competition should not be just India but the current tech super powers(US/Russia/Germany)...We should develop our plans that we should develop the technology far superior than their technology. We should give the target to our brightest brains..or scientists and engineerz...give them the money/funds what we spend on buying from the west..Inshallah we will be amazed with the results...Our all defence needs will be solved within short period of time. Our all policies for defence development should be made by the engineerz and scientists..cuz they know they way to develop technology...not the other pplz. example is Dr Abdul Qadeer..
Regarding why im so optimistic because our engineerz or military is doing their best on their behalf and God helps those who help themselevs..Alhamdolillah..their progress is going good.
Thats why i most of the time say "dont worry everything is going good"...

Another thing to tell you the truth some pplz have seen dreamz that in very near future we are going to rule the world inshallah...and our military strategy is going in synchronism with the dreams pplz seen.
The present situation of the world super powers is going in synchronism with the dreams...So Alhamdolillah everything is going fine...till we will see with our own eyes.If Allah was not helping us we would have been in stone age or most probably in graveyards as the world's biggest angel power(US) was going to reward us.
I hope you got my points to some extents...its possible i see some things differently than other pplz

 

[Super Falcon]

well more than 5 pakistan might need it because india already went for 6 scorpene subs now 6 more of the project 7 we need aroung 8 best operational submarines and we need some P-8 Posedian to counter indian stealth submarine project 7

 

[foxhound]

Just a point of interest....pakistan has the licence to produce the agosta class subs?....would it not be better to produce and upgrade the subs themselves?

 

[khurasaan1]

Just a point of interest....pakistan has the licence to produce the agosta class subs?....would it not be better to produce and upgrade the subs themselves?

Pak dont have to worry even if they dont have licence..cuz they can do upgradation by changing somewhat in the design and electronics sensors.etc.
I guess The PN is negotiating to get new subs from china in order to master the maritime electronics development tech. It will give PN boost to upgrade all its subs fleet in future inshallah.
my two cents bro...

 

[Super Falcon]

well sir agosta is good but we need something like U 214 which has stealth features and can dive more than Agosta and can fire underwater harpoon etc agosta can firee to harpoon but U 214 generation ahead of the agosta and building sub is not like a building tank in which you can add few things it need new designs etc

 

[khurasaan1]

well sir agosta is good but we need something like U 214 which has stealth features and can dive more than Agosta and can fire underwater harpoon etc agosta can firee to harpoon but U 214 generation ahead of the agosta and building sub is not like a building tank in which you can add few things it need new designs etc

I totally agree with u sir.....excellent analogy

 

[razgriz19]

well sir agosta is good but we need something like U 214 which has stealth features and can dive more than Agosta and can fire underwater harpoon etc agosta can firee to harpoon but U 214 generation ahead of the agosta and building sub is not like a building tank in which you can add few things it need new designs etc

agosta 90b can only fire exocet, however older agostas can fire harpoon but PN is facing them out..

and not just that but u-214 can also fire SAM!

 

[Super Falcon]

yes thats what im saying we need new submarines and different to each other so they can have different type of strengths each keeping the same subs will make much probleum atleast three type of different subs should be bought to give headaches ti IN so they can dive different types of dives and has stealth features and have good agility U 214 is more agile than agostas

 

[Tajdar adil]

Pakistan should goes for Chinees nuclear submarine and aircraft is well am i right can any tell me.

 

[unicorn148]

Pakistan should goes for Chinees nuclear submarine and aircraft is well am i right can any tell me.

China dont have many nuclear subs like US or Russia to give lease it has only one type 92 and 3-4 type 94 and 5 SSN so it will be difficult for china to lease these subs...

 

[khurasaan1]

Just a point of interest....pakistan has the licence to produce the agosta class subs?....would it not be better to produce and upgrade the subs themselves?

yes it is best to produce andupgrade themselves...

 

[khurasaan1]

China dont have many nuclear subs like US or Russia to give lease it has only one type 92 and 3-4 type 94 and 5 SSN so it will be difficult for china to lease these subs...

no we dont need to lease anything from china...

 

[MastanKhan]

Pak dont have to worry even if they dont have licence..cuz they can do upgradation by changing somewhat in the design and electronics sensors.etc.



Sir,

I don't want to sound disrespectful---but how are the pak going to do the upgradation----. This is an extremely sophisticated technology---it is not being sold at the corner tea shop or the 'paan ' stall.

And please, don't talk about the license issue in such a callous manner---. It is as easy as you make it sound---I very much doubt our naval complex has the capability to do any changes in the design or eletronics.

 

[MastanKhan]

Just a point of interest....pakistan has the licence to produce the agosta class subs?....would it not be better to produce and upgrade the subs themselves?

Hi,

But we still have to buy the material from france----did you by any chance MEAN OR THINK THAT WE CAN MANUFACTURE THE AGOSTA SUB----all of it on our own---just because we have the license----.

Could you please clarify.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

But we still have to buy the material from france----did you by any chance MEAN OR THINK THAT WE CAN MANUFACTURE THE AGOSTA SUB----all of it on our own---just because we have the license----.

Could you please clarify.

MK..the simulator for the Agosta subs was produced locally..with very little assistance from the french.
The issue is rarely expertise....its financial liquidity..and the ever looming menace of corruption.
While the material may have been french when it came to the MESMA section..quite a bit of the steel..was manufactured locally under observation...it isnt easy to fill in missing pieces of a puzzle as large and complex as a submarine.. but it isnt Impossible either.
However..the license issue is quite clear..we were licensed to manufacture a certain limit of submarines.. After which we will have to pay the french more money if we wish to make more.
We could go the way of the chinese and do something like the J-11..but the french arent as forgiving as the Russians..and we may not get the liberty to buy anything from them again.