Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Mumm-Ra]

Subsequently, something like this was resorted to.

And it also involved some naval Assets as well. There were several naval aircrafts were also sent to help them

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Show Russians the Money and they will sell you everything. Ruskies don’t care about Politics anymore, they just go for where ever they can score a Good Buck.
It wasn’t politics that I can assure you.
If the Ruskies cared about Politics they wouldn’t have pitched their Front Line Combat A/C to PAF. T-90 deal was peanuts in front of that. PA went for the best machine. All trials conducted with full vigour and transparency(Indenters can always wield a certain amount of Influence as we see our Eastern Neighbour always handing out deals to the heaviest Briber-Even in the case for Rafales where the Numbers dropped to 36 from 118 while the cost remained more or less the same, Hire a good Financial Advisor from LSE or UC Berkeley he’ll tell you the numbers don’t add up. Call it off set or whatever, those who are into the business of Defence procurement know how much money can change hands for a deal. Ask the Indians who are based in Arab countries or those who are reps of Western Firms sitting in Arab countries pitching them Combat Equipment. Even their Royals take a cut. Fortunately the system of Pakistani Armed Forces is much transparent and fool proof. Hope it will remain the same. VT-4 outclassed T-90 in 7/10 categories. It will definitely add a major punch to our Armoured Corps while the Indian Armoured Regiments wait for their new TI sights which they burnt in the Heat of the desert during an Exercise(just a small example)

Your knowledge on Indian procurement system is amusing.

 

[kongn]

So the story goes like this.

None of Indian mbts have effective apfsds ammo against the adversary. The best they have as of now is bm42 mango, the round is certified to achieve 430mm armor at 0 degrees. This is not sufficient to penetrate ERA equipped mbts.

Second, their mainstay t72 ajeya cannot fire the same apfsds as the t90s despite both having 125mm smoothbore. Sounds funny right, here is why.
T90s has 1a45 fcs that the t72 lacks. In fact, it has no fcs which makes firing the bm42 and Invar heat round difficult as values must be fed to fcc computer.

Third , they don't have DU rounds for any of their mbts. Arjun has a tiny apfsds that can barely achieve 300mm at 0 degrees
Don't forget the bursting barrels.

They think the MS, whenever it comes, will solve these issues but no order is placed and Russians have raised the price of MS. NOT to mention, they want separate contract for ammo as usual at higher price.

Nicely milked I say. @PakFactor

Mango is the standard round with 460mm penetration.Its not sufficient to penetrate frontal armour at max ranges of only khalid and t-80UD.All the rest of PA not a problem.Its a cheap round though obsolete.The israeli rounds have around 500 mm.Main attack round is invar with 25000 in stock.We already have a new round with 520-550 mm which passed trials and now entered production,covid permitting.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...oming-up-with-new-project/article31101187.ece
Arjun already had 500 mm round and now new round is under work.

Ajeya can actually fire mango.And yes the 1000 upgraded ajeyas have israeli fire control system.Our main focus is fleet logistics and indigenization at this point.We are already making the barrels of both T-72 and T-90.We recently fully indigenized the engines,and are making a new engine.We use our own composite armour on T-90 turrets derived from arjun's kanchan.And we also have now no need to import kontakt-5 blocks either.

This will replace the older ERA blocks on upgraded T-72s.
New homemade cannon guided missile for tanks is almost ready,though its being amde for FRCV project and arjun mk2.We have also made our own remote control firing station.
https://defproac.com/?p=4372
Also bharatforge is to make a new gun for T-series and FRCV.We learnt our lesson with OFB .Private sector is in now.L and T delivered the K-9 vajras ahead of time.We also now use homemade mine ploughs.APU is also underway.
https://www.janes.com/article/93951/indian-army-seeks-tank-apus-from-local-producers

As for new APFSDS round,its already underway.This time to private players.600-800 mm target.

You are living in the past and behind the times.In 10 years the indian military industrial complex will have private players at its forefront.They have already started taking over in infantry equipment.Aerospace is going out of HAL which has now become assembler to private subcontractors.Artillery has been taken over by kalyani.The happy days of competing with OFB is over.

Now since this thread is about VT-4 if you want to continue i suggest a new thread.

 

[maverick1977]

Hopefully, PA will put ASELSAN made AKKOR PULAT type active 360 degrees protection systems, with both soft and hard kill capabilities against the incoming projectiles and threats, on these monsters...

Is it spread charge counter measure with multiple pellets ?

Mango is the standard round with 460mm penetration.Its not sufficient to penetrate frontal armour at max ranges of only khalid and t-80UD.All the rest of PA not a problem.Its a cheap round though obsolete.The israeli rounds have around 500 mm.Main attack round is invar with 25000 in stock.We already have a new round with 520-550 mm which passed trials and now entered production,covid permitting.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...oming-up-with-new-project/article31101187.ece
Arjun already had 500 mm round and now new round is under work.

Ajeya can actually fire mango.And yes the 1000 upgraded ajeyas have israeli fire control system.Our main focus is fleet logistics and indigenization at this point.We are already making the barrels of both T-72 and T-90.We recently fully indigenized the engines,and are making a new engine.We use our own composite armour on T-90 turrets derived from arjun's kanchan.And we also have now no need to import kontakt-5 blocks either.

This will replace the older ERA blocks on upgraded T-72s.
New homemade cannon guided missile for tanks is almost ready,though its being amde for FRCV project and arjun mk2.We have also made our own remote control firing station.
https://defproac.com/?p=4372
Also bharatforge is to make a new gun for T-series and FRCV.We learnt our lesson with OFB .Private sector is in now.L and T delivered the K-9 vajras ahead of time.We also now use homemade mine ploughs.APU is also underway.
https://www.janes.com/article/93951/indian-army-seeks-tank-apus-from-local-producers

As for new APFSDS round,its already underway.This time to private players.600-800 mm target.

You are living in the past and behind the times.In 10 years the indian military industrial complex will have private players at its forefront.They have already started taking over in infantry equipment.Aerospace is going out of HAL which has now become assembler to private subcontractors.Artillery has been taken over by kalyani.The happy days of competing with OFB is over.

Now since this thread is about VT-4 if you want to continue i suggest a new thread.

Interesting! Thanks for the input.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Is it spread charge counter measure with multiple pellets ?
.

Demo videos indicate the presence of proximity fuse, its probably, as per the vids, not pellet based.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Hopefully, PA will put ASELSAN made AKKOR PULAT type active 360 degrees protection systems, with both soft and hard kill capabilities against the incoming projectiles and threats, on these monsters...

Hopefully it makes it onto the AK2

 

[maverick1977]

Demo videos indicate the presence of proximity fuse, its probably, as per the vids, not pellet based.

Damn, its hard to counter a projectile which is traveling at 1300+ meters per sec.. proximity makes sense, but headon and calculation when to explode must be based on early explosion and spraying the sharpnel at a wider area.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Damn, its hard to counter a projectile which is traveling at 1300+ meters per sec.. proximity makes sense, but headon and calculation when to explode must be based on early explosion and spraying the sharpnel at a wider area.

Just saw another detailed vid, its proximity fuse and pellet / shrapnel based.

 

[PakFactor]

So the story goes like this.

None of Indian mbts have effective apfsds ammo against the adversary. The best they have as of now is bm42 mango, the round is certified to achieve 430mm armor at 0 degrees. This is not sufficient to penetrate ERA equipped mbts.

Second, their mainstay t72 ajeya cannot fire the same apfsds as the t90s despite both having 125mm smoothbore. Sounds funny right, here is why.
T90s has 1a45 fcs that the t72 lacks. In fact, it has no fcs which makes firing the bm42 and Invar heat round difficult as values must be fed to fcc computer.

Third , they don't have DU rounds for any of their mbts. Arjun has a tiny apfsds that can barely achieve 300mm at 0 degrees
Don't forget the bursting barrels.

They think the MS, whenever it comes, will solve these issues but no order is placed and Russians have raised the price of MS. NOT to mention, they want separate contract for ammo as usual at higher price.

Nicely milked I say. @PakFactor

Wow, that's a horrible way to get milked. No interoperability of rounds alone is a logistical headache for any army, but this takes it to another level.

 

[hussain0216]

Yep that's the idea.

Will that be the end of AK1 production then?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Just saw another detailed vid, its proximity fuse and pellet / shrapnel based.

Not getting fluent in Turkish is no option...

 

[Blacklight]

I am currently engaged in protecting VT4 from Gulalai Ismail and Ahmad Waqas Goraya... Both are cursing Army for spending billions on weapons, while as per them 'Rest of World is reducing defense spending' for fighting Corona crisis.

Did you ask them: "When are you going to be kissed by corona"

They are so shameless to actually come back and reply: "Corona Extra - half an hour ago"

 

[waz]

Turret sloping is better in T-90MS.Infact its near perfect.The ERA placing is excellent and relikt is second only to afghanit.Though performance of FY-4 is unknown.
T-90ms has almost nothing in common with T-72.Whole turret is different.
T-90MS can fire svinets with 700-750 mm at 2 km at 60 degrees stated.But the autoloader has been changed.Older T-90 and t-series autoloader can max accomodate 640 mm penetrator.Without a change in autoloader how can VT-4 fire DTC125 export variant?Maybe chinese members can shed info.
Electronics is better how?By which parameters?
Mobility is largely equal.The 1500 HP engine is still on paper,at 1300 HP its almost negligible difference between the 2.
Well time will tell on the engine.

No it's turrent sloping is not "better" it's actually the same, I'm not sure what you mean by "perfect''.
The ERA on the VT-4 is well placed as well, attack angles covered and weak spots reinforced.
You also seem to talk about armour and then active protection in the same sentence, you're confusing yourself.
The performance of FY-4 is unknown is it? Maybe you should go to the Sino defence sites, it's undergone a great deal of testing.


The T-90MS design has everything in common with the T-72 this is a well known fact, even if you deny it;

Another post-Soviet development with its root in the T-72 program is the T-90 main battle tank and its variants

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/04/02/tankspotting-t-90as-donbass/

(The T-90s is based off the Soviet-era T-72 tank design.)

https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/will-iran-license-build-russias-t-90s-main-battle-tank/

The autoloader in both the VT-4 and type-99 have been completely overhauled and was one of the first things to happen, especially with the investments made by China in exploring new tank munitions. Of course it can fire the DTC125, are you telling me that the tank which has been put up for export for the last several years wouldn't come with it's said ammunition? Do you know that a newer round i.e. successor of the DTC125 is currently in development? Where are you getting all your information from?

A new round is also in development for the export market based on technology from the current generation DTC125 round (which is rumored to penetrate 750 millimeters at the same range)

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-selling-its-new-ztz-99-tank-anyone-buying-84876

The engine is not on 'paper', where did you get this from?

Do you know the type-99 drives with a 1500HP engine, a tank which the VT-4 borrows off heavily? The VT-4 has a 1300HP engine for sure, which tips mobility and speed heavily in its favour over the T-90MS i.e. power to ton.

 

[Dazzler]

Mango is the standard round with 460mm penetration.Its not sufficient to penetrate frontal armour at max ranges of only khalid and t-80UD.All the rest of PA not a problem.Its a cheap round though obsolete.The israeli rounds have around 500 mm.Main attack round is invar with 25000 in stock.We already have a new round with 520-550 mm which passed trials and now entered production,covid permitting.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...oming-up-with-new-project/article31101187.ece
Arjun already had 500 mm round and now new round is under work.

Ajeya can actually fire mango.And yes the 1000 upgraded ajeyas have israeli fire control system.Our main focus is fleet logistics and indigenization at this point.We are already making the barrels of both T-72 and T-90.We recently fully indigenized the engines,and are making a new engine.We use our own composite armour on T-90 turrets derived from arjun's kanchan.And we also have now no need to import kontakt-5 blocks either.

This will replace the older ERA blocks on upgraded T-72s.
New homemade cannon guided missile for tanks is almost ready,though its being amde for FRCV project and arjun mk2.We have also made our own remote control firing station.
https://defproac.com/?p=4372
Also bharatforge is to make a new gun for T-series and FRCV.We learnt our lesson with OFB .Private sector is in now.L and T delivered the K-9 vajras ahead of time.We also now use homemade mine ploughs.APU is also underway.
https://www.janes.com/article/93951/indian-army-seeks-tank-apus-from-local-producers

As for new APFSDS round,its already underway.This time to private players.600-800 mm target.

You are living in the past and behind the times.In 10 years the indian military industrial complex will have private players at its forefront.They have already started taking over in infantry equipment.Aerospace is going out of HAL which has now become assembler to private subcontractors.Artillery has been taken over by kalyani.The happy days of competing with OFB is over.

Now since this thread is about VT-4 if you want to continue i suggest a new thread.

None of these are in IA service. Some are just on paper. Arjuns 500 round is not certified kid go confirm. I have official Russian document that gives mangos range 430mm 0@ degrees.

IMI was blacklisted how can sell after that?

And plz bring something more credible than the Hindu

Wow, that's a horrible way to get milked. No interoperability of rounds alone is a logistical headache for any army, but this takes it to another level.

They bought obsolete ammo at 400% of the original price. Invar heat and mango apfsds.

 

[Tipu7]

A comparison of performance between Oplot-T and VT-4 operated by Thailand. (Via friend from China)

Basic:
-Oplot is lighter by 1 tonne.
-VT-4 has smaller profile.
-VT-4 has more powerful engine (in the case of Thailand).
-Oplot has higher off-road speed.

Firepower:
-VT-4 has stronger gun barrel.
-Oplot has better recoil.
-VT-4 has digital operated autoloader vs. older hydraulic controlled autoloader in Oplot.
-Oplot carries more ammunition.
-VT-4 can fire ammunitions at higher initial velocity.
-VT-4 has better accuracy and penetration
-Oplot has better tank launched missile
-Oplot's weapon station comes with stabilizer
-VT-4 has significantly better gunner's sight, main gun stabilizer, IR imaging, beam rider and laser range finder.
-VT-4 has auto target tracking, Oplot does not.
-VT-4 has auto gun calibration, Oplot does not.
-VT-4 has full electric gun control system.

Protection:
-Oplot has better protection from all aspects except sides of turret.
-VT-4 has better laser warning system (provides more details).
-Oplot has lower heat signature in terms of engine compartment.

Engine:
-Oplot has smaller engine and lighter mass.
-VT-4 can withstand higher torque.
-VT-4 has more efficient motor oil consumption.
-VT-4 has better gearbox.
-VT-4 has better turning capability.
-VT-4 has integrated power package, which can be replaced more easily during maintenance.

Motion:
-Oplot has better suspension system.

Information:
-VT-4 has significantly more advanced information management system and guidance.
-VT-4 has milliwave IFF
-VT-4 has better situation awareness with more cameras and multifunction display.

Overall, in case of Thailand which operates both tanks, VT4 is better tank.