Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[bananarepublic]

Hi,

Well---pak military could have had the GCC front the bill for a permanent fully equipped strike force---air---navy---ground---armor---logistics---.

Pakistanis had NEWLY FOUND DEMOCRACY---they thought what better time to use it---. They showed it how it can be done against an eternal ally---and eternal benefactor---.

You should've seen the condition of the nation at that time, 2 decades of internal turmoil had exhausted the people and they were in no inclination of support another "war".
You should've seen those times, it was a first where the " liberals" and "mullah" coming together and agreeing on something.
Neither the army nor the political parties were ready to face the outlash if they were to send troops.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You should've seen the condition of the nation at that time, 2 decades of internal turmoil had exhausted the people and they were in no inclination of support another "war".
You should've seen those times, it was a first where the " liberals" and "mullah" coming together and agreeing on something.
Neither the army nor the political parties were ready to face the outlash if they were to send troops.

I had the same views as yours, but @Ark_Angel made a very good point. It was one thing to not send troops to Yemen, but we unnecessarily created a public spectacle of the Nawaz Sharif government taking it to the National Assembly and formally passing a resolution against the Saudi/Emirati request.

Rebuking allies publicly in such a fashion was not the proper thing to do. The whole situation should have been handled privately and along the lines of the Egyptians.

It likely also did not help that it was the Nawaz Sharif led PMLN government, whom the Saudis had saved and allowed to reside in their country after Musharraf's coup, that led the spectacle of rebuking the Saudis and Emiratis.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Afv HIT should have made at home. They already had the Hamza MCV and it's sister LAVA program already running.

For the AFV Europeans had better options. Best would be to make it at home.

 

[Dazzler]

So the story goes like this.

None of Indian mbts have effective apfsds ammo against the adversary. The best they have as of now is bm42 mango, the round is certified to achieve 430mm armor at 0 degrees. This is not sufficient to penetrate ERA equipped mbts.

Second, their mainstay t72 ajeya cannot fire the same apfsds as the t90s despite both having 125mm smoothbore. Sounds funny right, here is why.
T90s has 1a45 fcs that the t72 lacks. In fact, it has no fcs which makes firing the bm42 and Invar heat round difficult as values must be fed to fcc computer.

Third , they don't have DU rounds for any of their mbts. Arjun has a tiny apfsds that can barely achieve 300mm at 0 degrees
Don't forget the bursting barrels.

They think the MS, whenever it comes, will solve these issues but no order is placed and Russians have raised the price of MS. NOT to mention, they want separate contract for ammo as usual at higher price.

Nicely milked I say. @PakFactor

 

[bananarepublic]

I had the same views as yours, but @Ark_Angel made a very good point. It was one thing to not send troops to Yemen, but we unnecessarily created a public spectacle of the Nawaz Sharif government taking it to the National Assembly and formally passing a resolution against the Saudi/Emirati request.

Rebuking allies publicly in such a fashion was not the proper thing to do. The whole situation should have been handled privately and along the lines of the Egyptians.

It likely also did not help that it was the Nawaz Sharif led PMLN government, whom the Saudis had saved and allowed to reside in their country after Musharraf's coup, that led the spectacle of rebuking the Saudis and Emiratis.

Yes exactly, If we had quietly negotiated with the arabs and sent a few troops along with a PAF squadron(or let the arabs fund us for a new figbter) The public would've taken it more easily albeit with some opposition.
PMLN did blow it out of proportion (or maybe someone else did) either way we lost billions, nonetheless we cannot change the past and these kinds of decision making always comes with a democracy.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Yes exactly, If we had quietly negotiated with the arabs and sent a few troops along with a PAF squadron(or let the arabs fund us for a new figbter) The public would've taken it more easily albeit with some opposition.
PMLN did blow it out of proportion (or maybe someone else did) either way we lost billions, nonetheless we cannot change the past and these kinds of decision making always comes with a democracy.

We have strong Iranian lobby.

Pakistanis had NEWLY FOUND DEMOCRACY---they thought what better time to use it---. They showed it how it can be done against an eternal ally---and eternal benefactor---.

We are known for shooting on our own foot.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

apfsds

What Happened to that Domestic APFSDs Project we had ?

 

[Dazzler]

What Happened to that Domestic APFSDs Project we had ?

We have several

 

[maverick1977]

They have insufficient quantity of ammo.
Then, the ones they have are mostly dude, the one made in OFB lack quality. The ones they imported from IMI were good but the company got blacklist so they don't have those anymore.

Wait, funniest part is yet to come.

haha ! good.

We have several

One i heard is called Naiza (spear) its a DU based APFSDS screaming at 1850meter/sec.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Yes exactly, If we had quietly negotiated with the arabs and sent a few troops along with a PAF squadron(or let the arabs fund us for a new figbter)

Subsequently, something like this was resorted to.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

So the story goes like this.

None of Indian mbts have effective apfsds ammo against the adversary. The best they have as of now is bm42 mango, the round is certified to achieve 430mm armor at 0 degrees. This is not sufficient to penetrate ERA equipped mbts.

Second, their mainstay t72 ajeya cannot fire the same apfsds as the t90s despite both having 125mm smoothbore. Sounds funny right, here is why.
T90s has 1a45 fcs that the t72 lacks. In fact, it has no fcs which makes firing the bm42 and Invar heat round difficult as values must be fed to fcc computer.

Third , they don't have DU rounds for any of their mbts. Arjun has a tiny apfsds that can barely achieve 300mm at 0 degrees
Don't forget the bursting barrels.

They think the MS, whenever it comes, will solve these issues but no order is placed and Russians have raised the price of MS. NOT to mention, they want separate contract for ammo as usual at higher price.

Nicely milked I say. @PakFactor

The Army has one of the highest stocks of Cannon Launched Missiles in the World. The Range is more than twice that of an AP Round and much better against moving targets.
The AP rounds will be secondary to this capability.
T-72(1000 numbers that are being upgraded) have the capability to fire all that the T-90 can, including missiles.
India also emphasises on localisation so the costs are definitely more but on the other hand more jobs here and easier to manage the logistics.

 

[bananarepublic]

Subsequently, something like this was resorted to.

Dammit then where are the eurofighters funded by arab shekels in PAF colours

 

[kongn]

No it doesn't have better geometry, both have a low silhouette and the VT-4 borrows also from western designs, the T-90MS had a dated design from three decades back, itself based on the T-72.
The VT4 also has receivers and i've already written about the defencive systems.
No firepower is not better, the guns are around the same and the VT-4 comes with the DTC125 round which is able to penetrate 750 millimeters at 2km, and is touted as good by western experts.
Optics are similar but electronic systems on the VT-4 are better.
Mobility is not "largely" equal, even with the T-90MS being lighter. The horse power to ton ratio is better in the VT-4 for the 1300HP, and for the 1500HP is it far greater.
The Chinese engine is working properly and passed with flying colours under severe heat and sand filled conditions. Stop writing silly things about Chinese reliability, this seems to be your default option when you run out of things to write about.

Turret sloping is better in T-90MS.Infact its near perfect.The ERA placing is excellent and relikt is second only to afghanit.Though performance of FY-4 is unknown.
T-90ms has almost nothing in common with T-72.Whole turret is different.
T-90MS can fire svinets with 700-750 mm at 2 km at 60 degrees stated.But the autoloader has been changed.Older T-90 and t-series autoloader can max accomodate 640 mm penetrator.Without a change in autoloader how can VT-4 fire DTC125 export variant?Maybe chinese members can shed info.
Electronics is better how?By which parameters?
Mobility is largely equal.The 1500 HP engine is still on paper,at 1300 HP its almost negligible difference between the 2.
Well time will tell on the engine.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hopefully, PA will put ASELSAN made AKKOR PULAT type active 360 degrees protection systems, with both soft and hard kill capabilities against the incoming projectiles and threats, on these monsters...

 

[Ark_Angel]

What I've heard is that when we intended to purchase it , we just had a plan to have Confirmatory Trials for the same since it's being used by adversary in almost similar conditions as of us. Heard that politics also played out somewhere as it was not to the likeness of India.

Show Russians the Money and they will sell you everything. Ruskies don’t care about Politics anymore, they just go for where ever they can score a Good Buck.
It wasn’t politics that I can assure you.
If the Ruskies cared about Politics they wouldn’t have pitched their Front Line Combat A/C to PAF. T-90 deal was peanuts in front of that. PA went for the best machine. All trials conducted with full vigour and transparency(Indenters can always wield a certain amount of Influence as we see our Eastern Neighbour always handing out deals to the heaviest Briber-Even in the case for Rafales where the Numbers dropped to 36 from 118 while the cost remained more or less the same, Hire a good Financial Advisor from LSE or UC Berkeley he’ll tell you the numbers don’t add up. Call it off set or whatever, those who are into the business of Defence procurement know how much money can change hands for a deal. Ask the Indians who are based in Arab countries or those who are reps of Western Firms sitting in Arab countries pitching them Combat Equipment. Even their Royals take a cut. Fortunately the system of Pakistani Armed Forces is much transparent and fool proof. Hope it will remain the same. VT-4 outclassed T-90 in 7/10 categories. It will definitely add a major punch to our Armoured Corps while the Indian Armoured Regiments wait for their new TI sights which they burnt in the Heat of the desert during an Exercise(just a small example)

I am currently engaged in protecting VT4 from Gulalai Ismail and Ahmad Waqas Goraya... Both are cursing Army for spending billions on weapons, while as per them 'Rest of World is reducing defense spending' for fighting Corona crisis.

Good Job! Keep it up we need more people like you on Twitter who can protect the National Narrative and Counter Propaganda as well as project National Resolve.