Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Defense industry have a very long supply chain. So someone knows something is not strange. Not every aspect in every weapon is classifed.

Ukraine have better tanks in 1980s, but after 27years of deindustrialization not very much left there. Their army forced to use T-64 to fight against separatist in 2014， and lost control of half of the country. Thailand brought T-84 Ukraine can't finish such small trade like 60 tanks.

I am not argue with you about Chinese tanks.

Ukraine delivered 10 tanks to Thailand from 2011 to 2015. Until now Thailand still didn't got their first order of 49 tanks.

I thought that is the maxium production speed of Ukraine. Cos no T-84 tanks shows in Dontesk battlefields.

Ukraines bad economic state can also be used to ones advantage.

We have over 320 UDs (upgraded to oplot M).. an oplot deal .. with engine or other key tech license deal can very good for Pak.

 

[帅的一匹]

Defense industry have a very long supply chain. So someone knows something is not strange. Not every aspect in every weapon is classifed.

Ukraine have better tanks in 1980s, but after 27years of deindustrialization not very much left there. Their army have to use T-64 against separatist in 2014， and lost control of half of the country. Thailand brought T-84 from Ukraine, and they can't finish such small trade like 49 tanks.

I am not arguing with you about Chinese tanks.

Ukraine delivered 10 tanks to Thailand from 2011 to 2015. Until now, Thailand still didn't have their first order of 49 tanks.

I thought that is the maxium production speed of Ukraine. Cos no T-84 tanks shows in Dontesk battlefields.

That means 2 tanks produced per year, some of them are refurbished ones. Maybe they can set up an assembly line in Pakistan.

Ukraines bad economic state can also be used to ones advantage.

We have over 320 UDs (upgraded to oplot M).. an oplot deal .. with engine or other key tech license deal can very good for Pak.

A chance to grab a good deal in Pakistan's favor.

 

[Hu Yao]

Ukraines bad economic state can also be used to ones advantage.

We have over 320 UDs (upgraded to oplot M).. an oplot deal .. with engine or other key tech license deal can very good for Pak.

If they transfer key tech to Pakistan and upgrade those T-80s in your local facility, that will be great. But still have to say, KBA-3 tank gun sucks. You need at least 2A46-5 or 2A82 tanke guns.

For some ecomonic reasons, upgrade your Khalid tanks is better than buy VT-4 tanks too. Simply add some FY-5 ERA wil increase the proction ability of your tanks.

 

[帅的一匹]

Whatever ways make PA strong suits China's interests. Just do it.

I feel good VT4 is under trial in Pakistan.

It makes our friend know where we stand in tank development.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

If they transfer key tech to Pakistan and upgrade those T-80s in your local facility, that will be great. But still have to say, KBA-3 tank gun sucks. You need at least 2A46-5 or 2A82 tanke guns.

For some ecomonic reasons, upgrade your Khalid tanks is better than buy VT-4 tanks too. Simply add some FY-5 ERA wil increase the proction ability of your tanks.

AK has already been upgraded..

Now, we are developing a heavier tank, powered with a 1500hp engine.. the Al Khalid II.

By key tech, im pointing towards manufacturing of spares and engine atleast.

 

[Hu Yao]

AK has already been upgraded..

Now, we are developing a heavier tank, powered with a 1500hp engine.. the Al Khalid II.

By key tech, im pointing towards manufacturing of spares and engine atleast.

I mean you need to upgrade AK further. AK is quite like Chinese ZTZ-96, and look how ZTZ-96 looks like. New ERA, new engine, new FCS, and new transmission.

ERA like FY-5 is effective against india Mango or even PCB APFSDS. For now, no India tank guns can penetrate the front armour of ZTZ-96B. FY-5 is able to break incoming APFSDS into two or three fragments, it turns APFSDS into APDS. I am not suggesting that you need to buy FY-5, Russian Relik ERA will do the same. I mean you need to upgrade those ERA in AK I.

 

[Basel]

Defense industry have a very long supply chain. So someone knows something is not strange. Not every aspect in every weapon is classifed.

Ukraine have better tanks in 1980s, but after 27years of deindustrialization not very much left there. Their army have to use T-64 against separatist in 2014， and lost control of half of the country. Thailand brought T-84 from Ukraine, and they can't finish such small trade like 49 tanks.

I am not arguing with you about Chinese tanks.

Ukraine delivered 10 tanks to Thailand from 2011 to 2015. Until now, Thailand still didn't have their first order of 49 tanks.

I thought that is the maxium production speed of Ukraine. Cos no T-84 tanks shows in Dontesk battlefields.

If there army is using T-64 in battle it doesn't mean they don't have better armour, also Chinese is not offering their top of the line product while Ukrainians are, their engine will be used in AK-2 that is why Pakistan want to built them in house, it also show that either China don't have very good engine or they are not offering one.

 

[帅的一匹]

If there army is using T-64 in battle it doesn't mean they don't have better armour, also Chinese is not offering their top of the line product while Ukrainians are, their engine will be used in AK-2 that is why Pakistan want to built them in house, it also show that either China don't have very good engine or they are not offering one.

I think Pakistan wants to be an tank exporter, advanced engine and armor is the most you lack.
It depends whether Ukraine will TOT those things you want, although Ukraine is pants down.

 

[Hu Yao]

If there army is using T-64 in battle it doesn't mean they don't have better armour, also Chinese is not offering their top of the line product while Ukrainians are, their engine will be used in AK-2 that is why Pakistan want to built them in house, it also show that either China don't have very good engine or they are not offering one.

They have best tanks once upon a time. But for now, Ukraine don't have the top class tanks.

Those 2A46 tank guns have problem on the auto loader, the warhead is too short for morden APFSDS. So Russians improved their tank guns into 2A46M-5 and 2A82, they allowed to use better APFSDS like Svinets-1 or vacuum. Ukraine KAB-3 tank guns are not good enough for you to knock out India T-90s. Remember when your tank project is finished, India is very possibly to have T-90MS tanks. KBA-3 tank gun have difficulty to penetrate T-72B3M(kontakt-5 ERA) tanks。


Again, I am not talking about Chinese tanks. There are lots of good tanks in the market for you to choose, there are some other tanks in the market like Turkish Altay tank and so on. I just don't wanna you waste your money.

 

[Dazzler]

They have best tanks once upon a time. But for now, Ukraine don't have the top class tanks.

Those 2A46 tank guns have problem on the auto loader, the warhead is too short for morden APFSDS. So Russians improved their tank guns into 2A46M-5 and 2A82, they allowed to use better APFSDS like Svinets-1 or vacuum. Ukraine KAB-3 tank guns are not good enough for you to knock out India T-90s. Remember when your tank project is finished, India is very possibly to have T-90MS tanks. KBA-3 tank gun have difficulty to penetrate T-72B3M(kontakt-5 ERA) tanks。


Again, I am not talking about Chinese tanks. There are lots of good tanks in the market for you to choose, there are some other tanks in the market like Turkish Altay tank and so on. I just don't wanna you waste your money.

We take care of the maingun at gun manufacturing factory. It is a quality gun and can engage the enemy up to 3000m away. As for the KBA3, there is no problem with that gun but the autoloader, which only allows up to 700mm long rounds and not more than that. The KBA3 is a quality gun that can only be matched with M4 version of 2A46 series.

The problem has been addressed in Al khalids as we developed a modified version of the autoloader to accommodate longer rounds.

 

[Basel]

I think Pakistan wants to be an tank exporter, advanced engine and armor is the most you lack.
It depends whether Ukraine will TOT those things you want, although Ukraine is pants down.

You are right Pakistan want to built and export tanks, as previously AK were marketed to some countries too.

Ukraine may not be able to provide fully built tanks in large numbers but still they can provide tech and subsystems for building tanks in Pakistan.

Any future tank purchased will be highly customized one, having subsystems from various countries.

 

[Hu Yao]

We take care of the maingun at gun manufacturing factory. It is a quality gun and can engage the enemy up to 3000m away. As for the KBA3, there is no problem with that gun but the autoloader, which only allows up to 700mm long rounds and not more than that. The KBA3 is a quality gun that can only be matched with M4 version of 2A46 series.

The problem has been addressed in Al khalids as we developed a modified version of the autoloader to accommodate longer rounds.

3KM range means nothing when you can't penetrate enemy armour. AK can shoot further with missiles. Basically AKII maybe equal to T-84 oplot-M. Same tank gun (both oriented from 2A46), same protection level, nearly same level FCS. China upgrade those 85-II to 96B, why you guys abandon AK? The new engine, new automitic gearbox, new FCS, new ERA are already in the market. AKII is ready to coming out.

When you guys buy a tank with Dollars, why don't choose a better one? I thought the only thechnology that T-84 is on the top class is the ERA, but the most important problem is KBA-3 cannon. Even second hand M1A2 tank is better than it. I don't think your tank crews will be happy when they saw they hit enemy tank with KBA-3, and enemy tank is still coming.

 

[Dazzler]

3KM range means nothing when you can't penetrate enemy armour. AK can shoot further with missiles. Basically AKII maybe equal to T-84 oplot-M. Same tank gun (both oriented from 2A46), same protection level, nearly same level FCS. China upgrade those 85-II to 96B, why you guys abandon AK? The new engine, new automitic, new FCS, new ERA are already in the market. AKII is ready to coming out.

When you guys buy a tank with Dollars, why don't choose a better one? I thought the only thechnology that T-84 is on the top class is the ERA, but the most important problem is KBA-3 cannon. Even second hand M1A2 tank is better than it. I don't think your tank crews will be happy when they saw they hit enemy tank with KBA-3, and enemy tank is still coming.

No one has abandoned AK series, but the purchase is due to the low production rate and need to replace the fleet of obsolete tanks in a hurry. Otherwise the Ak1 is sufficient for the needs of PA.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I mean you need to upgrade AK further. AK is quite like Chinese ZTZ-96, and look how ZTZ-96 looks like. New ERA, new engine, new FCS, and new transmission.

Its a medium tank bro.
Its main competition is T-90 .. which it beats easily.

For heavy lifting a heavier tank is under development.

ERA like FY-5 is effective against india Mango or even PCB APFSDS. For now, no India tank guns can penetrate the front armour of ZTZ-96B. FY-5 is able to break incoming APFSDS into two or three fragments, it turns APFSDS into APDS. I am not suggesting that you need to buy FY-5, Russian Relik ERA will do the same. I mean you need to upgrade those ERA in AK I.

AK , AK use AORAK ERA developed by Pak..

AK-I upgrade includes increased protection,new imagery systems,increased ammunition,new FCS and VATRA APS (optional).

 

[Hu Yao]

Its a medium tank bro.
Its main competition is T-90 .. which it beats easily.

For heavy lifting a heavier tank is under development.


AK , AK use AORAK ERA developed by Pak..

AK-I upgrade includes increased protection,new imagery systems,increased ammunition,new FCS and VATRA APS (optional).

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There are AK MBT, heavier MBT and lighter MBT. I thought AK is good enough, heavy tanks are not very useful considering your bridge and enviroment.

Basically AK is a pakistan version of ZTZ-96 and could easily turn into ZTZ-96B or even better tank. FY-5 ERA can break down enemy APDS and HEAT. There are already lot of active proction systems like chinese GL-5 on the market which can proctect your tanks from enemy HEAT and ATGM.

I thought upgrade AK with better Relik or FY-5 ERA, and put something like GL-5 on it will make AK a far better thank than Oplot-M. Ukraine tanks are still in 1990s. After 27 years unstopped deindustrialization Ukraine have to buy truks from Korea and China for their army now. No need to wast your dollars in 1990s tanks.