Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Paul2]

T90M is far superior to VT-4 in almost every metric, mobility and some electronics will be the only exception.
T90MS is the export variant of this tank. It is also superior to VT-4 in the same metrics. These are only operated by Russia.

T90AM is the previous modernization of T90, its export version is T90SM. That is the one india was considering, but will never get, they ordered more old T90S instead.
The SM (not the AM) has Relikt ERA and an APS and if equipped with the Svinets series of ammunition, it beats the VT4 in protection and firepower any day of the week. But VT-4 has better technology and mobility than this variant.

It is unfair to compare Oplot-M to T90M. Oplot is nowhere near as good, not even as good as VT-4. 90M on the other hand is even better than T-14 in some regards.

ERA is useless against latest APFSDS rounds, nothing saves you from the kinetic energy of 30kg of tungsten.

Latest ATGMs too can be made simply large enough to defeat any armour, or use top attack, or be launched in quantities to defeat armour in repetitive hits

Not being hit in the first place is a key.

And if you don't have sensors to detect the direction of attack, it means you loose at least 3-4 tanks if the first tank hit can't relay the info where it was shot from.

Even if the tank will survive a hit heavily damaged, it means nothing if it can't fire back.

It will likely be immobilised, with crew incapacitated, and be finished by the next hit.

 

[iLION12345_1]

ERA is useless against latest APFSDS rounds, nothing saves you from the kinetic energy of 30kg of tungsten.

Latest ATGMs too can be made simply large enough to defeat any armour, or use top attack, or be launched in quantities to defeat armour in repetitive hits

Not being hit in the first place is a key.

And if you don't have sensors to detect the direction of attack, it means you loose at least 3-4 tanks if the first tank hit can't relay the info where it was shot from.

Even if the tank will survive a hit heavily damaged, it means nothing if it can't fire back.

It will likely be immobilised, with crew incapacitated, and be finished by the next hit.

Modern ERA is literally designed with modern projectiles in mind. That’s why 3rd and 4th Gen ERA was created Ukrainian Duplet ERA can defeat some of the most modern APFSDS in service, if you throw 30KG of tungsten at it, it throws even more back.
not getting hit is definitely important, that’s why the best tanks have APS. Russian APS present on T-14 and T90MS is one of the most advanced in existence, right next to trophy.
GL-5 seems to be very good too, I really hope Pakistan gets GL-5 for its VT-4s and AK-II.

 

[Dazzler]

Can T90 achieve this dream via MS upgrade?

MS is the export version of 90M

T90M is far superior to VT-4 in almost every metric, mobility and some electronics will be the only exception.
T90MS is the export variant of this tank. It is also superior to VT-4 in the same metrics. These are only operated by Russia.

T90AM is the previous modernization of T90, its export version is T90SM. That is the one india was considering, but will never get, they ordered more old T90S instead.
The SM (not the AM) has Relikt ERA and an APS and if equipped with the Svinets series of ammunition, it beats the VT4 in protection and firepower any day of the week. But VT-4 has better technology and mobility than this variant.

It is unfair to compare Oplot-M to T90M. Oplot is nowhere near as good, not even as good as VT-4. 90M on the other hand is even better than T-14 in some regards.

Yeah right

 

[Paul2]

Modern ERA is literally designed with modern projectiles in mind. That’s why 3rd and 4th Gen ERA was created Ukrainian Duplet ERA can defeat some of the most modern APFSDS in service, if you throw 30KG of tungsten at it, it throws even more back.
not getting hit is definitely important, that’s why the best tanks have APS. Russian APS present on T-14 and T90MS is one of the most advanced in existence, right next to trophy.
GL-5 seems to be very good too, I really hope Pakistan gets GL-5 for its VT-4s and AK-II.

Dupet ERA cuts incoming round into pieces. Now cut 30kg of tungsten flying at 2000m/s into pieces. You had 60MJ flying in once piece, now flying as 60MJ of tungsten shot. 60MJ of kinetic energy will still have to be dissipated somewhere. Steel vaporises at 6MJ per kg. It can vaporise 10kg of steel. Even as a shot, it will punch through any armour.

This could've probably worked against decades old Soviet APFSDS, but not modern one which have like 3 times more energy than first 125mm guns.

 

[Scorpiooo]

T90M is far superior to VT-4 in almost every metric, mobility and some electronics will be the only exception.
T90MS is the export variant of this tank. It is also superior to VT-4 in the same metrics. These are only operated by Russia.

T90AM is the previous modernization of T90, its export version is T90SM. That is the one india was considering, but will never get, they ordered more old T90S instead.
The SM (not the AM) has Relikt ERA and an APS and if equipped with the Svinets series of ammunition, it beats the VT4 in protection and firepower any day of the week. But VT-4 has better technology and mobility than this variant.

It is unfair to compare Oplot-M to T90M. Oplot is nowhere near as good, not even as good as VT-4. 90M on the other hand is even better than T-14 in some regards.

What is the price for export for T90MS ?
There was news from Russia media once that Pakistan is interested in T90M

 

[Raja Porus]

What is the price for export for T90MS ?
There was news from Russia media once that Pakistan is interested in T90M

That news was from 2016 during Raheel shareef's era. It was just a symbolic offer as our relations had just started to grow.

 

[Dazzler]

That news was from 2016 during Raheel shareef's era. It was just a symbolic offer as our relations had just started to grow.

We tested it too in Russia.

 

[iLION12345_1]

What is the price for export for T90MS ?
There was news from Russia media once that Pakistan is interested in T90M

depends on the deal you get. Russia was buying them for 4.5 mil a tank in 2017. Export would be more expensive, especially in 2021.

 

[alimobin memon]

T90M is far superior to VT-4 in almost every metric, mobility and some electronics will be the only exception.
T90MS is the export variant of this tank. It is also superior to VT-4 in the same metrics. These are only operated by Russia.

T90AM is the previous modernization of T90, its export version is T90SM. That is the one india was considering, but will never get, they ordered more old T90S instead.
The SM (not the AM) has Relikt ERA and an APS and if equipped with the Svinets series of ammunition, it beats the VT4 in protection and firepower any day of the week. But VT-4 has better technology and mobility than this variant.

It is unfair to compare Oplot-M to T90M. Oplot is nowhere near as good, not even as good as VT-4. 90M on the other hand is even better than T-14 in some regards.

There is no confirmed data but if Chinese claim vt4 is comparable to leopard variants like 2a6 than I'm sure there is nothing special t90M provides other than aps which I'm pretty sure in coming years u will also see in Pakistan army VT 4 and Al Khalid's. Plus, era does not protect all types of threats and in most cases tank against tank would be engagement of armor piercing rounds and in such cases most of the test cases show even in heavy era that penetration still happens and damages tank. Overall its the agility of the tanks that would matter and t90M does not provide anything superior in that case plus, other thank relict and aps which also would be resolved. plus, tank on tank engagement nullifies the effectiveness of APS im pretty sure the kinetic energy and speed of apfsds will by pass aps. APS used to counter slow rocket propellers or atgms.

 

[Scorpiooo]

PA has Gap of 600 + tanks to be inducted as per there past plan, VT 4 covers 300 tanks, so still 300 plus tanks required, if we assume HIT in 2020 able to produce 50 tank per year target then they will take 2028 for completion of this Gap or even plus.

So in IMO we can see follow up order of VT4 or there can other Tank induction from 150 to 200 to fill this as early as possible.

PA can consider any other ecnomical but reliable solid option in future, even those can used ans upgraded once well to save the cost

 

[serenity]

In what areas are T14 less than T90M? Every way I can think of except for maybe certain mobility, T14 should be much better than T90M.

 

[Scorpiooo]

An other area indian are getting 350 plus light tanks, so PA should consider it to, open a thread for it

Light weight tanks for Pakistan Army

India is considering to induct 350 light tanks after China india conflict of last years, as they have seen the chines type 15 light tank effectively and advantages. Problem is that these will not only placed with Chinese border they will also be placed on Kashmir LoC, thats way indian are...

defence.pk

 

[iLION12345_1]

comparison of T84 Oplot and VT-4 in Thai trials. These shortcomings were noted in the Pakistani trials and some major changes were made including:

Inclusion of front removable barrel.
Much thicker FY-4 ERA all around, plus ERA coverage on turret roof.
Addition of armored side skirts (still rather poor side protection, but at least there’s option for APS).
Entirely new stabilizers.
Engine Up-tuned to 1500HP.
Data-link system.

Apart from protection, Pakistani VT-4s should be superior to Oplot in every metric, and with the new ERA protection is brought closer to Oplot as well. If Pakistan orders GL-5 APS down the line, then that would be easily superior as well.

 

[Raja Porus]

comparison of T84 Oplot and VT-4 in Thai trials. These shortcomings were noted in the Pakistani trials and some major changes were made including:

Inclusion of front removable barrel.
Much thicker FY-4 ERA all around, plus ERA coverage on turret roof.
Addition of armored side skirts (still rather poor side protection, but at least there’s option for APS).
Entirely new stabilizers.
Engine Up-tuned to 1500HP.
Data-link system.

Apart from protection, Pakistani VT-4s should be superior to Oplot in every metric, and with the new ERA protection is brought closer to Oplot as well, without it, it was rather abysmal to say the least. View attachment 750489

Someone please give him a positive rating.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Someone please give him a positive rating.

Thank you, but I did not make this, I had asked some Chinese friends who translated it and posted it on another site called SH forum, they sent it to me.