Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[iLION12345_1]

The cost of Type 99A is around the same as VT-4 I think.

For China yes, not for export, export means price increased in most cases. And it’s not offered for export so we won’t know.

 

[Tipu7]

Fellas, everyone must keep in mind that export variants are essentially stripped down versions of original product and have more flexible layout for tailoring as per customer requirements.

In most of cases, an export version is bit inferior than actual product. Take Russian T-90M and T-90MS as an example where T-90M is a superior machine than T-90MS. Same was true for T-90A vs T-90S.

Similar pattern can be observed in China tank industry. ZTZ-99A2 is a tank exclusively for PLA. Its not available for export. If anyone want a high end Chinese tank, VT4 is available which can modified further - even with non Chinese systems. Similar relationship is shared by VT1 (export version of ZTZ-90), VT2 (export version of ZTZ-96A/B), VT3 (export version of ZTZ-59G), and VT5 (export version of ZTQ-15).

 

[iLION12345_1]

Oplot was never bad option, only problem is its supply chain, even i heard they PA even considered going for 2 plateform due to pros and cons

It was not yes, supply chain was its biggest issue, however VT-4 overall is a better platform than oplot due to the technological advantage, among other reasons.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Pakistan and china relationship is like the u.s n isreal relationship.
everything and anything is available to Pakistan, nothing is off-limits.
In the words of a Chinese foreign office official, "Pakistan is to China what isreal is to the u.s".

the best way to understand the difference between the PA variant of a vt4 and type99 is the same as the difference between a jf17 block3 and a j10c.

oplot was never seriously in consideration as HIT had a bad experience with the quality and price of the parts being provided by ukraine required for the major overhaul of the t80ud fleet and that was just the requirement for the pilot project before they commence the fleet-wide overhaul.

 

[Beast]

Let me add on something, just becos 99A is not allow to be exported doesn't mean VT-4 is very far off from it. Remember Norinco has designed this tank to compete with western tank in open market. In fact Norinco is confident most spec of VT-4 tank surpass even Leopard A7 , Lerlerc and M1A2 in many aspect.

 

[IblinI]

There was a similar discussion of VT4 vs Type 99A on the Chinese social media and forum not long ago, but it was more intense,lol.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Let me add on something, just becos 99A is not allow to be exported doesn't mean VT-4 is very far off from it. Remember Norinco has designed this tank to compete with western tank in open market. In fact Norinco is confident most spec of VT-4 tank surpass even Leopard A7 , Lerlerc and M1A2 in many aspect.

Add to that the modifications made for the Pakistani variant of vt4.
It's a beast of a machine....wouldn't u say beast.

 

[Beast]

Add to that the modifications made for the Pakistani variant of vt4.
It's a beast of a machine....wouldn't u say beast.

VT-4 is a competitive and good tank. It has gain export to 3 countries despite the saturated and competitive tank market.

 

[Scorpiooo]

For China yes, not for export, export means price increased in most cases. And it’s not offered for export so we won’t know.

But in some case we get subsidized cost from chinese

There was a similar discussion of VT4 vs Type 99A on the Chinese social media and forum not long ago, but it was more intense,lol.

What was then outcome of that discussion?

 

[Scorpiooo]

There is a possibility that if in future PA order next Vt then these 300, may be we got aome advance and superior version of VT4

 

[alimobin memon]

Pakistan and china relationship is like the u.s n isreal relationship.
everything and anything is available to Pakistan, nothing is off-limits.
In the words of a Chinese foreign office official, "Pakistan is to China what isreal is to the u.s".

the best way to understand the difference between the PA variant of a vt4 and type99 is the same as the difference between a jf17 block3 and a j10c.

oplot was never seriously in consideration as HIT had a bad experience with the quality and price of the parts being provided by ukraine required for the major overhaul of the t80ud fleet and that was just the requirement for the pilot project before they commence the fleet-wide overhaul.

Exactly this last para is right. I remember in this forum 3 to 4 yrs ago in some topic it was complained by some senior members that t80UD is expensive to maintain and so should be the case for oplot tank. Plus, the way Russia is towards Ukraine we dont know when there will be next issues and there is no guarantee we will get them in time. Plus, the way t80UD we got is a history to remember.

Why is no one focusing on the point as mentioned here by some members that China officially and confidently claimed vt4 surpasses in many aspects to latest variants of leopard. Just look at vt4 tank turret moment damn that roles so fast.

 

[Dazzler]

VT4 excels in automation, CnC, ammo, datalinks, engine and fcs/optics. 90M and oplot can only dream of competing in these.

 

[Raja Porus]

VT4 excels in automation, CnC, ammo, datalinks, engine and fcs/optics. 90M and oplot can only dream of competing in these.

Can T90 achieve this dream via MS upgrade?

 

[Paul2]

Can T90 achieve this dream via MS upgrade?

VT4 is just a much newer machine, thus having nearly a decade advantage in electronics in comparison to anything on the market. Until T-14 will be on the international market, VT4 is the best tank money can buy with post-nineties level electronics.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Can T90 achieve this dream via MS upgrade?

T90M is far superior to VT-4 in almost every metric, mobility and some electronics will be the only exception.
T90MS is the export variant of this tank. It is also superior to VT-4 in the same metrics. These are only operated by Russia.

T90AM is the previous modernization of T90, its export version is T90SM. That is the one india was considering, but will never get, they ordered more old T90S instead.
The SM (not the AM) has Relikt ERA and an APS and if equipped with the Svinets series of ammunition, it beats the VT4 in protection and firepower any day of the week. But VT-4 has better technology and mobility than this variant.

It is unfair to compare Oplot-M to T90M. Oplot is nowhere near as good, not even as good as VT-4. 90M on the other hand is even better than T-14 in some regards.