Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[zhxy]

Type 99A is more expensive and superior to VT-4, Especially when it comes to protection and the advanced ammunition it can fire, but technology and sensory wise they are close. VT-4 (the Pakistani variant at least) may have better mobility.

The Type-99A is not superior to the VT-4

The Type-99 was created in preparation for large-scale tank battles and head-to-head tank battles. Hence its front armor was very thick and its side armor was thin

VT-4 was developed for export purposes, it has been redesigned to be sleeker, lighter, highly maneuverable and fully protected on all sides with active defense system and have automatic machine guns

China's military doctrine is to avoid bringing tanks into the city, so it doesn't integrate active defense and automatic machine guns on the Type-99A.

Many people assume that the Type-99 moves faster than the VT-4 because it has a 1500 horsepower engine. This is not entirely true. The engine of the Type-99 is more powerful than the VT-4, but the weight of the Type-99 is also greater so the speed and maneuverability of the two tanks is similar. If the VT-4 uses a similar engine to the Type-99 (1500 hp), then the VT-4 will be faster.

 

[khanasifm]

I am not sure how long will it take to replaces those as these tank per pieces are at least $5 million each. It will take some time plus production capacity will also be another factor.

Everything in subcontinent is a beast [emoji23]

Indian beast
Pak beast
Bangala beast

[emoji23]












Kidding

 

[iLION12345_1]

The Type-99A is not superior to the VT-4

The Type-99 was created in preparation for large-scale tank battles and head-to-head tank battles. Hence its front armor was very thick and its side armor was thin

VT-4 was developed for export purposes, it has been redesigned to be sleeker, lighter, highly maneuverable and fully protected on all sides with active defense system and have automatic machine guns

China's military doctrine is to avoid bringing tanks into the city, so it doesn't integrate active defense and automatic machine guns on the Type-99A.

Many people assume that the Type-99 moves faster than the VT-4 because it has a 1500 horsepower engine. This is not entirely true. The engine of the Type-99 is more powerful than the VT-4, but the weight of the Type-99 is also greater so the speed and maneuverability of the two tanks is similar. If the VT-4 uses a similar engine to the Type-99 (1500 hp), then the VT-4 will be faster.

Not exactly accurate, Type99A is much superior to VT4 when it comes to armor, VT4s armor without FY4 is rather poor as Pakistani and Thai trials showed. Type99A has much higher ERA coverage aswell. Also Type99A can fire 125-III APFSDS which is one of the worlds most advanced, VT4 does not have this. Type 99A has an APS too, one that is more used and tested than GL5. The only thing it is missing is an RWS, and no Chinese local tanks have that as per their doctrine.

VT4 can match the 99A in technology as a lot of their stuff is shared in that regard. But China does save the best for itself.

Type99A is similarly mobile to VT4, maybe apart from the Pakistani upgraded variant, the power and torque difference is significant. Torque is a better metric of power in tanks than HP. Large doesn’t mean immobile, Leo2 is massive yet extremely mobile. Also keep in mind that Pakistani VT4 is likely closer to 53-54 tons as compared to 52 for the other ones due to much heavier and more coverage of FY4. While Type99A is around 58 tons.
VT-4s chassis is closer to VT1A than 99A, but VT4 gets the upgraded composites from 99A as well as more base armor, a redesigned turret and a larger engine bay, but the starting point for VT4 hull was closer to VT1A and not 99.

 

[Beast]

I have heard that the Type-99A only costs around 3 million USD. Is it true? Is the VT-4 or Type-99A better? It will probably take around 10 years+ to replace all of the 1st generation tanks. Also Al Khalid ll will enter service in 2022. It could be that Al Khalid ll is basically a pakistani version of the VT-4. So my 750 number of VT-4 is a little high. 500 VT-4 should be enough for Pakistan Army, considering that Al Khalid ll is coming next year....

VT-4 sold to RTA at USD $5.2-$5.4 a piece. China and thailand r/s are quite good and this is consider a very good price we sold to them.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan currently has 176 VT-4s in service and with 300 planned in total. In my opinion 300 is a low number. We have 160 1st generation Type-69 tanks and 400 1st generation Type 59 tanks. We need to desperately replace these 1st generation tanks with VT-4. I think Pakistan Army should consider 500 VT-4 tanks.

800 is the number to go for. 500 is also not the right number. 800 of these 800 of AL KHALID I and then move on to AL KHALID II.

 

[iLION12345_1]

VT-4 sold to RTA at USD $5.2-$5.4 a piece. China and thailand r/s are quite good and this is consider a very good price we sold to them.

Similar price for Pakistan, despite the upgrades, Chinese always give us the better deal

 

[Abid123]

Similar price for Pakistan, despite the upgrades, Chinese always give us the better deal

Friendly discount

 

[Reichmarshal]

800 is the number to go for. 500 is also not the right number. 800 of these 800 of AL KHALID I and then move on to AL KHALID II.

800 al Khalid 1 means 16 years at 50 tanks a year

Not exactly accurate, Type99A is much superior to VT4 when it comes to armor, VT4s armor without FY4 is rather poor as Pakistani and Thai trials showed. Type99A has much higher ERA coverage aswell. Also Type99A can fire 125-III APFSDS which is one of the worlds most advanced, VT4 does not have this. Type 99A has an APS too, one that is more used and tested than GL5. The only thing it is missing is an RWS, and no Chinese local tanks have that as per their doctrine.

VT4 can match the 99A in technology as a lot of their stuff is shared in that regard. But China does save the best for itself.

Type99A is similarly mobile to VT4, maybe apart from the Pakistani upgraded variant, the power and torque difference is significant. Torque is a better metric of power in tanks than HP. Large doesn’t mean immobile, Leo2 is massive yet extremely mobile. Also keep in mind that Pakistani VT4 is likely closer to 53-54 tons as compared to 52 for the other ones due to much heavier and more coverage of FY4. While Type99A is around 58 tons.
VT-4s chassis is closer to VT1A than 99A, but VT4 gets the upgraded composites from 99A as well as more base armor, a redesigned turret and a larger engine bay, but the starting point for VT4 hull was closer to VT1A and not 99.

PA version of vt4 is one of a kind and very close to type 99A. It includes some major modifications over the orignal variant. As during the trials they were all pointed out

 

[iLION12345_1]

800 al Khalid 1 means 16 years at 50 tanks a year

PA version of vt4 is one of a kind and very close to type 99A. It includes some major modifications over the orignal variant. As during the trials they were all pointed out

Not very close to Type 99A. Cannot be, technologically and mobility wise yes, armor and firepower wise definitely not. Type 99A is bigger, much better ERA coverage and Thicker Base armor. Pakistans VT-4s also do not have APS installed, Type 99A has it as standard, but hopefully we will be getting that soon. Firepower wise it can fire 125-III APFSDS that has over 800MM/0 Deg at 2KM penetration, much superior to VT4s 650MM.

 

[Reichmarshal]

When vt4 failed the trials china offered to sell type 99a to Pakistan.
But PA went for the hybrid of vt 4 type 99a.

Now this certainly does not means that our vt4 is type 99...all the modifications demanded by PA came from type 99a. It's a one of a kind

 

[Dazzler]

Not very close to Type 99A. Cannot be, technologically and mobility wise yes, armor and firepower wise definitely not. Type 99A is bigger, much better ERA coverage and Thicker Base armor. Pakistans VT-4s also do not have APS installed, Type 99A has it as standard, but hopefully we will be getting that soon. Firepower wise it can fire 125-III APFSDS that has over 800MM/0 Deg at 2KM penetration, much superior to VT4s 650MM.

Apfsds figures are wrong. Type III barely does 700mm at 0deg.

 

[Raja Porus]

When vt4 failed the trials china offered to sell type 99a to Pakistan.
But PA went for the hybrid of vt 4 type 99a.

Now this certainly does not means that our vt4 is type 99...all the modifications demanded by PA came from type 99a. It's a one of a kind

That's new

 

[iLION12345_1]

When vt4 failed the trials china offered to sell type 99a to Pakistan.
But PA went for the hybrid of vt 4 type 99a.

Now this certainly does not means that our vt4 is type 99...all the modifications demanded by PA came from type 99a. It's a one of a kind

Type 99A was never offered to Pakistan. If Anything based on the ZTZ-99 platform is offered to Pakistan, it will not have 125-III APFSDS and the ZTZ-99As hybrid APS (though I think in that regard, GL5 APS is superior anyways.) it will be a downgraded version between 99A and base 99. If 99A was offered to Pakistan and they picked VT-4 over it then all of those who made that decision should be fired.

The VT-4 did not come from Type 99A, it came from VT-1A platform upgraded with Type 99A technologies. You can compare them side by side, the Hull is literally the same shape as VT-1A with modifications to turret, base armor and engine compartment. That doesn’t mean it’s an upgraded VT-1A or Type 96, it’s a unique tank, rather it’s an evolution of those designs and not a part of the ZTZ-99 family.
Pakistans VT-4 is one of a kind, that’s for sure, it’s much better compared to what Thailand and Nigeria got, but it’s not based of 99A. That’s why I said our VT-4s are technologically and mobility wise close to 99A, but not when it comes to protection and firepower.

Apfsds figures are wrong. Type III barely does 700mm at 0deg.

Exact figures are unknown, sources state 800MM+, has the 700MM figure been reported anywhere?

 

[Beast]

When vt4 failed the trials china offered to sell type 99a to Pakistan.
But PA went for the hybrid of vt 4 type 99a.

Now this certainly does not means that our vt4 is type 99...all the modifications demanded by PA came from type 99a. It's a one of a kind

There was never the hybrid VT-4 tank. It was always the same offer from day one. The one PA received is some modification requested based on customer need after their trial. VT-4 is a tank tested extensively from dried and hot xinjiang area to high attitude near Tibet and wet/moisture area in South China to extreme cold place in inner mongolia. Before finalised as VT-4 and offered to RTA as the first customer.

 

[iLION12345_1]

There was never the hybrid VT-4 tank. It was always the same offer from day one. The one PA received is some modification requested based on customer need after their trial. VT-4 is a tank tested extensively from dried and hot xinjiang area to high attitude near Tibet and wet/moisture area in South China to extreme cold place in inner mongolia. Before finalised as VT-4 and offered to RTA as the first customer.

By hybrid he means it has more upgrades over the other VT-4s, which is correct, It has 1500 HP compared to 1300, FY-4 ERA instead of FY-2 (plus ERA on the roof), Better stabilizers etc.
The engine, armor and stabilizer upgrades were requested as these faults were found in VT-4 during testing, The engine (original one) had a couple of failures, the original stabilizers developed some issues and the protection was rather poor compared to Oplot (then again, oplot is one of the most protected tanks currently in service.)