Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Gessler]

I already expected this...I think a lot of other members expected this too.

 

[T-123456]

Appease India by curtailing Pakistan and get them permanently as the US Sheriff in Asia.

Dont know if that would be a good option for the US.
Lose Pakistan(a nuclear weapons country)for good to China?
What police role can India have when China is close to Pakistan and coming closer to Bangladesh?
Fish in a bowl?

 

[Armstrong]

Dont know if that would be a good option for the US.
Lose Pakistan(a nuclear weapons country)for good to China?
What police role can India have when China is close to Pakistan and coming closer to Bangladesh?
Fish in a bowl?

Since when did the US give a frig about Pakistan ?

Granted that our services are proportionate to the $$$s they throw at our Leaders but even that has its limits !

We're not towing their line on Afghanistan any more, we've never towed their line on China & we most certainly will never tow their line on India or our nukes !

 

[SQ8]

Dont know if that would be a good option for the US.
Lose Pakistan(a nuclear weapons country)for good to China?
What police role can India have when China is close to Pakistan and coming closer to Bangladesh?
Fish in a bowl?

It can, India is still a very strong country which has the potential to match China in certain aspects provided it gets the support. The rest is geopoltics. India tries to outflank China, China tries to do the same to it and the US. Moreover, having two Asian giants battle it out instead of the US needing to Contain China gives it cannon fodder so it may avoid having to spend too much in trying to counter the Chinese.

 

[Gessler]

US blocks Turkey's 'flagship sale' and risks souring relations with a NATO member

But I don't think Turkey would try to sour it's relation with US either, for the sake of a chopper sale
to Pakistan, or would it???

as well as with Pakistan, another MNNA.

Which is why they will not openly say Pak shouldn't get anything from NATO...they will block T-129,
but they could offer AH-1Z after 2015. Super Cobra is also very good, and also quite similar to the AH-1F/S
that you currently operate.

Pakistan gets pisssed off - commits to WZ-10. It will be a diplomatic disaster for the US if that happens.

That won't change the fact that you wanted something, but did not get it. Secondly, if you'd get WZ-10
(or WZ-19), why waste time on T-129? Just ask China for Z-10 straight away instead of haggling with
Uncle Sam for his ultimately superior products, which albeit come with dozens of strings attached.

 

[T-123456]

Since when did the US give a frig about Pakistan ?

Granted that our services are proportionate to the $$$s they throw at our Leaders but even that has its limits !

We're not towing their line on Afghanistan any more, we've never towed their line on China & we most certainly will never tow their line on India or our nukes !

I was talking about US interests,not Pakistans interests.
Btw,it was your leaders who let Pakistan be used by the US,maybe this time it will change(you think?).
It would be wise for the US to keep Pakistan as an ''ally'' and the US knows that.

 

[T-123456]

It can, India is still a very strong country which has the potential to match China in certain aspects provided it gets the support. The rest is geopoltics. India tries to outflank China, China tries to do the same to it and the US. Moreover, having two Asian giants battle it out instead of the US needing to Contain China gives it cannon fodder so it may avoid having to spend too much in trying to counter the Chinese.

Countries are becoming more independent on each other,The US can try whatever but i dont think India will give them the opportunity to be used.

 

[Armstrong]

I was talking about US interests,not Pakistans interests.
Btw,it was your leaders who let Pakistan be used by the US,maybe this time it will change(you think?).
It would be wise for the US to keep Pakistan as an ''ally'' and the US knows that.

I was talking about the same !

How can US Interests be served if Pakistan isn't towing their line on the core issues it wants Pakistan to tow their line on - China, Afghanistan, India, the nukes etc.

At any rate the US also knows that the amount of resentment in Pakistan, amongst the Pakistani Public, against the US Foreign Policy & by extension the State isn't going to go away soon & any action of any Government whereby it is seen to tow the US Line isn't much appreciated - Too much of that & the Pakistani Public would turn on that Party so they (the Political Parties) have to do a balancing act between them (the Pakistani People) & the United States along with the Pakistan Army (the Establishment) exerting significant influence on almost all of the core areas !

 

[Kompromat]

But I don't think Turkey would try to sour it's relation with US either, for the sake of a chopper sale
to Pakistan, or would it???

Turkey will see it as a US assault on its infant military industry, desperate to find foreign sales to fuel its R&D.

Which is why they will not openly say Pak shouldn't get anything from NATO...they will block T-129,
but they could offer AH-1Z after 2015. Super Cobra is also very good, and also quite similar to the AH-1F/S
that you currently operate.

Pakistan will not ditch Turkey to go for AH-1Z. Not to forget that they won't be available for exports before 2017. If Pakistan goes for Vipers, it will sour our relations with Turkey.

That won't change the fact that you wanted something, but did not get it. Secondly, if you'd get WZ-10
(or WZ-19), why waste time on T-129? Just ask China for Z-10 straight away instead of haggling with
Uncle Sam for his ultimately superior products, which albeit come with dozens of strings attached.

If worst comes to worst, WZ-10 will carry a strong political message for America.

 

[Echo_419]

Dont know if that would be a good option for the US.
Lose Pakistan(a nuclear weapons country)for good to China?
What police role can India have when China is close to Pakistan and coming closer to Bangladesh?
Fish in a bowl?

This is absolute nonsense
India as a inde Foriegn policy since her Independence
& we pakistanis love to talk about how we are getting close to US
Wake up people India is & will always be on India's side only
& if we are using our influence to stop arms sales to Pakistan,then it is a good thing
Just search on google how much they irritate & interface in our internal affairs

 

[T-123456]

I was talking about the same !

How can US Interests be served if Pakistan isn't towing their line on the core issues it wants Pakistan to tow their line on - China, Afghanistan, India, the nukes etc.

At any rate the US also knows that the amount of resentment in Pakistan, amongst the Pakistani Public, against the US Foreign Policy & by extension the State isn't going to go away soon & any action of any Government whereby it is seen to tow the US Line isn't much appreciated - Too much of that & the Pakistani Public would turn on that Party so they (the Political Parties) have to do a balancing act between them (the Pakistani People) & the United States along with the Pakistan Army (the Establishment) exerting significant influence on almost all of the core areas !

Why so many expensive words?
Just say:We the people have had it with working for US interests,our politicians should work for us from now on or face the consequences!
Btw,very good no crying

This is absolute nonsense
India as a inde Foriegn policy since her Independence
& we pakistanis love to talk about how we are getting close to US
Wake up people India is & will always be on India's side only
& if we are using our influence to stop arms sales to Pakistan,then it is a good thing
Just search on google how much they irritate & interface in our internal affairs

Do you see your country beeing used for US interests?

 

[T-123456]

Pakistan will not ditch Turkey to go for AH-1Z. Not to forget that they won't be available for exports before 2017. If Pakistan goes for Vipers, it will sour our relations with Turkey.

Our relations will allways be the same,nothing a deal more or less can change.

 

[Gessler]

Turkey will see it as a US assault on its infant military industry, desperate to find foreign sales to fuel its R&D.

There is a lot more than military industry at stake. If T-129 is not sold, it will 'hurt' Turkey, Italy, UK and
the USA's industries as well (all their products are in this chopper). Not just Turkey. Plus T-129
is not 100% Turkish, so by common sense, Turkey obviously remains answerable to all the countries
and companies who have contributed to make this helicopter a reality.

If T-129 is 100% Turkish, then the West will have much less of a point to make. But it's not, that's
the problem, one that only Turkey can solve in some way.

Pakistan will not ditch Turkey to go for AH-1Z. Not to forget that they won't be available for exports before 2017. If Pakistan goes for Vipers, it will sour our relations with Turkey.

But what can you do if US stays firm that it won't allow Turkey to sell choppers? Obviously you will
either have to sit down and try to solve the differences in the deal (which could mean a possible give
and take deal, where US allows sale of T-129 and you give them 'something' in return), or you have to
look for solutions elsewhere, one option is waiting for AH-1Z (it is offered at all, that is), or just go and
order WZ-10 or WZ-19 right away...the latter is particularly feasible.

If worst comes to worst, WZ-10 will carry a strong political message for America.

...but more importantly it will carry a much stronger political message to the world at large, that no
NATO country can cross the line drawn by Uncle Sam.

 

[Kompromat]

@Gessler

I don't think, it will go that far.

 

[T-123456]

...but more importantly it will carry a much stronger political message to the world at large, that no
NATO country can cross the line drawn by Uncle Sam.

I disagree,as you know we bought the HQ-9 Air Defence System from China.