Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Edevelop]

I hope it goes like this: T-129 For the Army and WZ-10 for the Air Force. No doubt the issue is $$

 

[Inception-06]

I hope for WZ-10, as a long term solution it is the best and cheapest product for Pakistan.

 

[cabatli_53]

I hope for WZ-10, as a long term solution it is the best and cheapest product for Pakistan.

Gorkem Bilgi of Turkish Aerospace Industries said that the T-129 had been extensively adapted to suit Turkish military requirements, but climatic and topographical similarities between Pakistan and Turkey and similar mission profile requirements make it ideally suited for Pakistan’s needs.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...etter-Ties?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

The rivalry copter's Power/Weight ratio !!!

Indian LCH:
Power (1,430shp)/Weight(5800kg)= 493shp/tonnes

Chinese WZ-10:
Power(1350shp)/Weight(7000+kg)= 385 shp/tonnes

Turkish T-129 Atak
Power(1361shp)/Weight(5000kg)=550shp/tonnes

 

[cabatli_53]

WZ-10

 

[sohaib91]

This is cool, i hope deal gets matured soon

 

[Irfan Baloch]

has the T-129 been deployed by the Turkish army in the operations against the militants?
like any gunship its biggest threat comes from the RGP, how are the pilots trained to deal with that specially when the situation requires it to hover and fly low?

 

[VelocuR]

What do you mean by WZ-10 is new untested and not developed from combat ??

Impressive!



There is worrisome on T-129's main engines from US, forget it.

Turkey, Pakistan Seek Better Ties

Turkey is also now pushing its T-129 ATAK helicopter gunship to replace Pakistan’s AH-1F Cobras.

“Our aim is to export these helicopters to friendly countries, and we will continue to work toward that end,” the SSM official said.

More attack helicopters are “essential” for Pakistan to conduct operations in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, “notably North Waziristan,” Cloughley said.

The previously touted deal to acquire the U.S. AH-1Z helicopter is now unlikely to occur, he said. The Pentagon has stated that domestic orders for the AH-1Z must be approved first, and congressional opposition also is likely, he said. The T-129 is “the best alternative,” he said.

Gorkem Bilgi of Turkish Aerospace Industries said that the T-129 had been extensively adapted to suit Turkish military requirements, but climatic and topographical similarities between Pakistan and Turkey and similar mission profile requirements make it ideally suited for Pakistan’s needs.

Bilgi said the T-129 would be indigenous except for the U.S.-sourced LHTEC CTS800-4A engines.

Establishing a second production line for export orders would deliver the first helicopter “after 36 months.” However, negotiations for approximately 15 helicopters have stalled due to Pakistan’s poor finances.

Cloughley highlights Pakistan’s “extremely large” commitment in the Tribal Areas, its “enormous” operating costs that will increase as winter sets in, plus the likelihood of having to deploy more units due to growing pressure from militants.

“There will therefore be less cash for acquisition of capital equipment, and attack helicopters do not come cheap,” he said.

Though Turkey “cannot afford to indulge in charity,” it may be possible “to cobble together a deal, perhaps involving offsets, that Pakistan could afford, but it will take a lot of negotiation,” he said.

Bilgi said a budgetary proposal was made to Pakistan, but he did not provide details.

“It could be possible to discuss these issues with Pakistan, according to requirements of the customer in the near future,” Bilgi said.

Neither the SSM official nor Bilgi would provide a unit cost.

Zafar Jaspal, director and associate professor of the School of Politics and International Relations at Quaid-e-Azam University in Pakistan, said a deal worth up to $500 million for 15 T-129s may yet be affordable.

He said Pakistan may potentially draw on the Coalition Support Fund (CSF), “because these helicopters could be required for military operations against terrorist groups.”

The CSF reimburses Pakistan for services rendered in support of the International Security Assistance Force’s Afghan mission. In July, $1.18 billion was released for the period July 2010-May 2011.

The China Option
Jaspal concedes China may be the only alternative.

The problem is that China’s CAIC WZ-10 helicopter is new and untested, and not developed from a combat-tested design, such as the T-129, he said.

The SSM official said Turkey is not out to compete with China. “China is an important country in Asia and they have such an influence on the naval and air platforms. ... It is their [Pakistan’s and China’s] business in that part of the world.”

Though the “T-129 is a very good prospect,” Shabbir said, Turkey will not be “able to offer a very generous economic package, which the Chinese are very good at.”

He said the WZ-10 is viewed as Pakistan’s long-term insurance policy in the absence of an alternative, but as it matures, “might become the preferred choice.”

Cloughley concurs, but said, “it would take a long time for such a deal to be brokered.”

Ultimately, Shabbir said, it will come down to technological and performance comparisons, though the Western engine may count against the T-129 due to Pakistan’s fear of sanctions.

“The Pakistani-Turkish relationship is going to thrive,” he said. “The only thing limiting it is [Pakistan’s] dire financial situation, but it is not going to be like this in the long term. Things are only going to get better.”

Turkey, Pakistan Seek Better Ties | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Ottoman_smack]

has the T-129 been deployed by the Turkish army in the operations against the militants?
like any gunship its biggest threat comes from the RGP, how are the pilots trained to deal with that specially when the situation requires it to hover and fly low?

Has the WZ-10 been used on the real conflict?

here is worrisome on T-129's main engines from US, forget it.

Why dont u worry about Wz-10 engine?You know it is using Russian engine.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Why dont u worry about Wz-10 engine?You know it is using Russian engine.

Actually the Z-10 attack helicopter uses the WZ-9 turboshaft engine which is a domestic engine made in China.

When will the T-129 enter service ?

 

[VelocuR]

Why dont u worry about Wz-10 engine?You know it is using Russian engine.

Nothing worry, Russia and Pakistan are better relations as the example of JF-17, we still worry Turkey will accept US' engines sanctions on Pakistan after Afghanistan post war 2014.

Turkey is not reliable partner than China.

Actually the Z-10 attack helicopter uses the WZ-9 turboshaft engine which is a domestic engine made in China.

When will the T-129 enter service ?

With the recent announcement, Mass production of Turkey's indigenous T-129 attack helicopters will begin in 2013

Same goes, T-129 is untested and new which haven't try experiences to kill PPK or innocent Kurds in conflicts.

 

[VelocuR]

WZ-10 armed helicopter is launching AKD-10 air-to-ground guided missile.

WZ-10 chopper trumps US counterpart in maneuverability
November 13, 2012

China's newly unveiled attack helicopter, the WZ-10, can functionally perform as well as America's AH-64 Apache ,and with better maneuverability than the latter, making it more suitable for China's air defense, a Party delegate at the ongoing 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China told China.org.cn in an exclusive interview yesterday in Beijing.

Lin Zuoming, president of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), said that the WZ-10, which officially conducted low-altitude adaptive flying exercises at its debut at the Zhuhai Airshow one day before, has no big differences with the AH-64 Apache except for its takeoff weight. The WZ-10's takeoff weight is about six tons, four tons lighter than the AH-64.

In spite of lighter takeoff weight or bomb load, the WZ-10 has better maneuverability and, thus is more suitable for protecting China's complicated topography, which features a lot of hills and mountainous areas, Lin said. He noted that the WZ-10, nicknamed "Thunderbolt" meets world class standards in every functional aspect.

 

[Ottoman_smack]

Same goes, T-129 is untested and new which haven't try experiences to kill PPK or innocent Kurds in conflicts.

T-129 WİLL NOT using on innocent Kurds.It will using on Terrorists.

Turkey is not reliable partner than China

Do you think China is more reliable then a muslim country?

When will the T-129 enter service ?

Beginning of 2013


and my brother: Muslim spends on the way of Allah very wholeheartedly.Muslim would never spend in vain,he would not waste but he does not keep it tight either.When the money is spent on Muslim on the way of Islam. Muslim spends it abudantly and never keep it tight.Yet Muslim would never spend money in vain and All Muslims should be together if they want to walk on the way of Allah.

 

[VelocuR]

T-129 WİLL NOT using on innocent Kurds.It will using on Terrorists.


Do you think China is more reliable then a muslim country?
Beginning of 2013


and my brother: Muslim spends on the way of Allah very wholeheartedly.Muslim would never spend in vain,he would not waste but he does not keep it tight either.When the money is spent on Muslim on the way of Islam. Muslim spends it abudantly and never keep it tight.Yet Muslim would never spend money in vain and All Muslims should be together if they want to walk on the way of Allah.

Yes, you are right we can assist Muslim countries, however Turkey should removed itself from NATO members under US control and AtaTurk must be replaced by Ottoman Empires and its historics. China's relation with Pakistan is deeper closer than Turkey which supported Western foreigners to kill Libyans, Syrians, Iraqis, Kurds, etc. Allah is not pleased with idiots Muslims and bad deeds.

 

[Gentelman]

Maybe this is true of the Indian political establishment but the Indian military is not like the Pakistani military in the sense the Indian military has not political ambitions or say-they are completly subservient to the civilian establishment.



@topic. Is there a particular reason there is no cinsideration being given to US offereings? The AH-1Z and especially the AH-64E are at the top of their fields. For anyone looking at the T129 are the Super Cobra or Apache not worthy of consideration? Or is this a political move?

well i suppose super cobra and Apache will be 1st consideration of PA....
i don't think US will offer Apache..
well if PA is considernig TOT then maybe they willnot consider US products and choose WZ 10 or T 129...
well WZ 10 has more chances than T 129 as T 129 has still to be induced while Wz 10 is induced and ready to export and cheap with greater payload with out any fear of sanctions from Uncle Sam
otherwise it is a good chance of Super Cobra to replace AH/1Z....

 

[cabatli_53]

To make some sense, Think more about sanctions. If Pakistan really worries about Western sanctions to be applied for future, Why Pakistani officials have already been pouring billion $ on Western products instead of directly look for equivalents in China ? I am talking about complete products which all intellectual and property rights of the whole design and sub-systems belongs to sole Western countries and USA such as F-16 Block30, Block 50+, Aspide SAM, UAV's, ERIEYE AWACS and more. There are also some future tenders which will be opened for which the institutes from Western countries will participate. If The likely sanctions are so crucial proceeding ahead of system quality, cost-effectivity, competability..etc, Close all tenders, cut all relations with West and just open all sources to China...

About T-129, Current WZ-10 with domestic shaft engine can't be on par with T-129 Atak A/B. With more powerfull domestic engine China is developing, The both attack helicopter would be reached similar hot/high performances but Reliability of copter will remain a big question for WZ-10 which will use a new developed engine under many difficulties and a proven one T-129 uses.

T-129's LHTEC 800A is one of the best engine which is developed for USA famous Commanche helicopter. Many parts of this engine are being manufactured by Turkish institutes in Turkey...