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Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

Thanks for your valuable advice, Generals sitting in GHQ will listen to you.

It's just a recommendation. Your generals always had their priorities wrong; To ensure that they have some semblance of political power, they targeted you for years against us, misguiding you and doing coups after coups without any respect to your national constitution.

They made themselves larger than life to make you guys admire them.

Today TTP is devouring your country open.

If your generals had the dignity and half the aggression they showed towards "responding to Indian attacks", TTP would have never even dreamt of doing what it is doing in your country.

GHQ needs to seriously reconsider its obsession with political power in your country.

In their bid to remain larger than life, your generals will only ruin your country from within.


Tell me:

Who is suffering? The Generals? No. Zardari? No. Raja Pervez? No. Gilani? No.

It is that common soldier of yours who fights against TTP to protect you lot from those lunatics.

It is the common man who wants to earn his living but nowadays has to even be thankful for living everyday.

The situation in your main cities is all for you to see, mate.

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out why GHQ's priorities are so screwed up and how it is harming your country.


Your first political objective should be to re-humanize the military which is revered head over heels and bring civilian power back.

Your military's priority should be to secure your internal cities against TTP at any cost. They need to get their acts together.
 
Jahan se commission zaida milna ha wohi purchase karein gy maybe army reject both and go for AH-1Z. :cheesy:

Bili kay khawab
@Tshering22
your post is good but off topic really

there are some interesting points you got so please make a copy and discuss in an appropriate channel

lets show some respect to our Turkish friends
 
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We, should have diversity in our fleet, T-129 fits PA.

Diversity always comes at a cost. Multiple platforms demand as many maintenance setups, support infrastructure, spares etc etc, all of which you know.

At the moment, the Zulu cobra would be the best way to go, a little quantity of them, and look at the T-129 and Z-10 at a later stage with a bit of active involvement in modifying the heli to our own needs.
 
where?
in India? looks like you are right, its their military that put a spanner in any peace process and wants to keep the Kashir and Siachin Issue hot.

--
ops sorry I should stay on topic

gunships should be a priority over submarines and ballistic missiles because the way TTP is conducting its operations, there wont be any "strategic installation" left if they are not curbed via drones and gunships
 
where?
in India? looks like you are right, its their military that put a spanner in any peace process and wants to keep the Kashir and Siachin Issue hot.

To be fair, that can be said of both sides.

--
ops sorry I should stay on topic

gunships should be a priority over submarines and ballistic missiles because the way TTP is conducting its operations, there wont be any "strategic installation" left if they are not curbed via drones and gunships

Even gunships won't be effective if a sizable minority (or majority, perhaps) of the people at large support TTP's aims.
 
where?
in India? looks like you are right, its their military that put a spanner in any peace process and wants to keep the Kashir and Siachin Issue hot.

Maybe this is true of the Indian political establishment but the Indian military is not like the Pakistani military in the sense the Indian military has not political ambitions or say-they are completly subservient to the civilian establishment.



@topic. Is there a particular reason there is no cinsideration being given to US offereings? The AH-1Z and especially the AH-64E are at the top of their fields. For anyone looking at the T129 are the Super Cobra or Apache not worthy of consideration? Or is this a political move?
 
Diversity always comes at a cost. Multiple platforms demand as many maintenance setups, support infrastructure, spares etc etc, all of which you know.

At the moment, the Zulu cobra would be the best way to go, a little quantity of them, and look at the T-129 and Z-10 at a later stage with a bit of active involvement in modifying the heli to our own needs.

WZ-10,a good choise~~~:pakistan:
Best Regards!
294_146468_464c0fd41502aa1.jpg
 
This much evaluation is not even done by larki dekhne wale when they come to see the girl
 
Impressive indeed...


I think clearly the Helicopter is good enough and agile enough to purchase 100 units with transfer of technology of the engines

This should be targetted by Pakistan Army it will increase our operation against not only Militrary foes but also the problem from Afghanistan crossing borders

Pasand hai bahi get it ordered already
 
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Turkey, Pakistan Seek Better Ties


ISLAMABAD — Turkey is trying to broaden defense industry links with Pakistan, but Pakistan’s poor financial situation is hampering efforts.

That opens the door to a possible deal with China, experts said, which carries its own set of issues.

“Pakistan is one of our closest partners in defense, and they are already buying a lot of equipment from us,” said a senior official responsible for foreign relations at Turkey’s Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM). “We would do whatever we can to further boost our cooperation.”

Former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, agrees.

“The recent visit by Turkey’s defense undersecretary was an indicator that Turkey remains committed to developing defense relations further,” he said.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said Turkey is a valued supplier that “offers [Pakistan] a route to Western technology” such as previously purchased NATO standard communication equipment.

Turkey’s efforts were showcased at Pakistan’s biannual defense fair, the Nov. 7-11 International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS).

Turkish defense software and systems integration firm Havelsan secured orders for its shipboard Genesis C4I combat management system, and is negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the Pakistani military to further co-develop simulators for JF-17, F-16, C-130 and MFI-17 Mushak/Super Mushak aircraft.

But completion of large-scale deals remains elusive.

At IDEAS 2008, Havelsan project management firm STM and defense electronics company Aselsan promoted a Pakistani-specific corvette based on Turkey’s MILGEM/Ada program, which also sought to maximize the participation of Pakistan’s private industry based on Turkey’s defense industrial experience.

This stalled due to a lack of Pakistani financial resources, but at IDEAS 2012, a Havelsan spokesman said there had been “some progress in the right direction.”

An official linked to Pakistan’s naval industry said he thought the “opportunity has passed” and both parties had “gone their separate ways and are working on their own.”

Pakistan does not have the required indigenous design experience, so this may be a ruse to lower the price of a Turkish proposal. Turkey might propose a more affordable alternative, the SSM official said.

“Turkey would do its ultimate to boost cooperation in the field of naval vessels,” he said, and these may include the type of ships produced by Turkey’s Yonca Onuk yard, which promoted its MRTP-24 and MRTP-44 concepts at IDEAS 2012.

Turkey is also now pushing its T-129 ATAK helicopter gunship to replace Pakistan’s AH-1F Cobras.

“Our aim is to export these helicopters to friendly countries, and we will continue to work toward that end,” the SSM official said.

More attack helicopters are “essential” for Pakistan to conduct operations in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, “notably North Waziristan,” Cloughley said.

The previously touted deal to acquire the U.S. AH-1Z helicopter is now unlikely to occur, he said. The Pentagon has stated that domestic orders for the AH-1Z must be approved first, and congressional opposition also is likely, he said. The T-129 is “the best alternative,” he said.

Gorkem Bilgi of Turkish Aerospace Industries said that the T-129 had been extensively adapted to suit Turkish military requirements, but climatic and topographical similarities between Pakistan and Turkey and similar mission profile requirements make it ideally suited for Pakistan’s needs.

Bilgi said the T-129 would be indigenous except for the U.S.-sourced LHTEC CTS800-4A engines.

Establishing a second production line for export orders would deliver the first helicopter “after 36 months.” However, negotiations for approximately 15 helicopters have stalled due to Pakistan’s poor finances.

Cloughley highlights Pakistan’s “extremely large” commitment in the Tribal Areas, its “enormous” operating costs that will increase as winter sets in, plus the likelihood of having to deploy more units due to growing pressure from militants.

“There will therefore be less cash for acquisition of capital equipment, and attack helicopters do not come cheap,” he said.

Though Turkey “cannot afford to indulge in charity,” it may be possible “to cobble together a deal, perhaps involving offsets, that Pakistan could afford, but it will take a lot of negotiation,” he said.

Bilgi said a budgetary proposal was made to Pakistan, but he did not provide details.

“It could be possible to discuss these issues with Pakistan, according to requirements of the customer in the near future,” Bilgi said.

Neither the SSM official nor Bilgi would provide a unit cost.

Zafar Jaspal, director and associate professor of the School of Politics and International Relations at Quaid-e-Azam University in Pakistan, said a deal worth up to $500 million for 15 T-129s may yet be affordable.

He said Pakistan may potentially draw on the Coalition Support Fund (CSF), “because these helicopters could be required for military operations against terrorist groups.”

The CSF reimburses Pakistan for services rendered in support of the International Security Assistance Force’s Afghan mission. In July, $1.18 billion was released for the period July 2010-May 2011.

The China Option
Jaspal concedes China may be the only alternative.

The problem is that China’s CAIC WZ-10 helicopter is new and untested, and not developed from a combat-tested design, such as the T-129, he said.

The SSM official said Turkey is not out to compete with China. “China is an important country in Asia and they have such an influence on the naval and air platforms. ... It is their [Pakistan’s and China’s] business in that part of the world.”

Though the “T-129 is a very good prospect,” Shabbir said, Turkey will not be “able to offer a very generous economic package, which the Chinese are very good at.”

He said the WZ-10 is viewed as Pakistan’s long-term insurance policy in the absence of an alternative, but as it matures, “might become the preferred choice.”

Cloughley concurs, but said, “it would take a long time for such a deal to be brokered.”

Ultimately, Shabbir said, it will come down to technological and performance comparisons, though the Western engine may count against the T-129 due to Pakistan’s fear of sanctions.

“The Pakistani-Turkish relationship is going to thrive,” he said. “The only thing limiting it is [Pakistan’s] dire financial situation, but it is not going to be like this in the long term. Things are only going to get better.”

Turkey, Pakistan Seek Better Ties | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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