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Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

Some details have emerged from Farnborough Airshow regarding Pakistan's configuration of 30 T-129.

10 - T129-BI
20 - T129-BII

  • T129-BI
    • Missile warning Receiver
    • Flare dispenser
    • IR suppressor
    • Local Tactical Communication/Data link
    • Full weapons integration.
  • T129-BII (incl above systems)
    • Laser Warning Receiver
    • Radar Warning Receiver
    • Radio Frequency Jammer
    • Chaff Dispenser
    • BLOS Communication - 9681 V / UHF Radio (High / Very High Band Transmitter)
In this picture T129-BII is being developed within a lab environment on a 'Iron Bird' rig.
guzelik-jpg.474127
 
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Some details have emerged from Farnborough Airshow regarding Pakistan's configuration of 30 T-129.

10 - T129-BI
20 - T129-BII

  • T129-BI
    • Missile warning
    • Flare dispenser
    • IR suppressor
    • Local Tactical Communication/Data link
    • Full weapons integration.
  • T129-BII (incl above systems)
    • Laser Warning Receiver
    • Radar Warning Receiver
    • Radar Jammer
    • Chaff and Flare Dispenser
    • 9681 V / UHF Radio (High / Very High Band Transmitter)
In this picture T129-BII is being developed within a lab environment on a 'Iron Bird' rig.
guzelik-jpg.474127
IMO T-129 BII sounds like a transition-step to ATAK-2 (as ATAK-2 is to include a full-featured EW/ECM suite). @Oscar ... what do you think? I think the next natural step here is to co-induct (and ideally, co-produce) the ATAK-2 with Turkey as the PAA is already preparing for the conceptual side of the ATAK-2.
 
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Some details have emerged from Farnborough Airshow regarding Pakistan's configuration of 30 T-129.

10 - T129-BI
20 - T129-BII

  • T129-BI
    • Missile warning Receiver
    • Flare dispenser
    • IR suppressor
    • Local Tactical Communication/Data link
    • Full weapons integration.
  • T129-BII (incl above systems)
    • Laser Warning Receiver
    • Radar Warning Receiver
    • Radio Frequency Jammer
    • Chaff Dispenser
    • BLOS Communication - 9681 V / UHF Radio (High / Very High Band Transmitter)
In this picture T129-BII is being developed within a lab environment on a 'Iron Bird' rig.
guzelik-jpg.474127
what about the Mmw Radar?
 
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IMO T-129 BII sounds like a transition-step to ATAK-2 (as ATAK-2 is to include a full-featured EW/ECM suite). @Oscar ... what do you think? I think the next natural step here is to co-induct (and ideally, co-produce) the ATAK-2 with Turkey as the PAA is already preparing for the conceptual side of the ATAK-2.
Looks more like a gradual block increment. I frankly see no cost benefit in doing a local ATAK coproduction as we do not have the necessary skilled labor available to back up all these projects. We barely had enough personnel to churn out Jf-17s and AWC is the only facility with the existing infrastructure to accommodate the equipment and jigs.. HIT is still stuck in the 70’s.
 
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Looks more like a gradual block increment. I frankly see no cost benefit in doing a local ATAK coproduction as we do not have the necessary skilled labor available to back up all these projects. We barely had enough personnel to churn out Jf-17s and AWC is the only facility with the existing infrastructure to accommodate the equipment and jigs.. HIT is still stuck in the 70’s.
The main potential cost benefit of co-production is pushing some parts out back to Turkey, basically reverse some of the foreign/hard-currency costs and get some of the acquisition spent locally. But I agree; feasibly doing it will depend on whether PAC has the wherewithal to do it at present, not require a follow-on expense.

That said, incrementally receiving 5-6 helicopters a year (current program) and then joining the Turkish Army's block increments sounds like a synchronized order. Basically, when the ATAK-2 is available and in production, the PAA could just orders those in small batches in parallel to Turkey.
 
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The T-129 Atak was a technology transfer for main body design and the provision of some critical subsystems from abroad. (During this time, mass production experience was achieved in many critical sub-production areas such as PAL production, powertrain gearboxes etc. ) And actually this project meet immediate needs.

ATAKII will be designed with national and local facilities and capabilities in the light of technological know-how and operational experience. Because of the fact that it will now entirely a domestic helicopter, export barriers will also be completely abolished.

Pakistan has made a great timing in the transition process between these two projects.

what about the Mmw Radar?
Domestic MWR is ready. Integration activities are underway. In Atak-1, modular usage is envisaged on pylon. At Atak-2 we expect to MWR be included as standard equipment under the body. My idea that Atak-2 is mostly will used for suppression of armored units, while Atak-1 is used against light armored and asymmetric targets. If we establish an equation over Pakistan, the first party helicopters will fight against terrorism, while ongoing deliveries will serve to balance the enemy countries.
 
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Sir has the deal been signed already? because some people were suggesting it will be signed by the new govt.
 
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The main potential cost benefit of co-production is pushing some parts out back to Turkey, basically reverse some of the foreign/hard-currency costs and get some of the acquisition spent locally. But I agree; feasibly doing it will depend on whether PAC has the wherewithal to do it at present, not require a follow-on expense.

That said, incrementally receiving 5-6 helicopters a year (current program) and then joining the Turkish Army's block increments sounds like a synchronized order. Basically, when the ATAK-2 is available and in production, the PAA could just orders those in small batches in parallel to Turkey.

It's interesting to note that 36 T129-BI have been delivered out of 38 ordered for TAF. So the production at TAI was ready to transition to T129-BII. It is very possible that Pakistan's T129-BI is being assembled in this video;

 
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The newly-rebranded Turkish Aerospace, formerly Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), is pushing to dominate the medium to heavy helicopter markets through two new models.

The aircraft will be spanning the civil and military side; however, the company currently awaits confirmation from the Turkish government to proceed from the quotation it supplied to development stages.

In an interview with Shephard at Paris Air Show in 2017, Metİn Olcay, business development of the helicopter group at the-then TAI, explained to Shephard that the company was looking at growing its helicopter portfolio.

‘We want to complete our range of helicopters, we want more than two [aircraft]. In 2018 we will be starting on other helicopter designs, smaller or larger [than the existing rotorcraft] - it will be customer dependent,’ Olcay said.

Temel Kotil, president and CEO at Turkish Aerospace, confirmed to Shephard that talks were underway with the Turkish government as the company prepared to expand further into the medium to heavy segments.

Currently, the company has the 5t T129 Atak and the 6t T625 multirole helicopter. The current vision is for a couple more platforms bigger than the incumbent aircraft.

Kotil said that a quotation has been provided to the Turkish government in relation to a new 8t attack helicopter which he is hopeful to sign a contract for in the next couple of months. The company, Kotil explained, was with the government also exploring a 12t civil helicopter which would carry 20-plus passengers, although this was still in its infancy.

In October 2017, the company announced that the Atak 2, a combination of the T129 Atak and T625, was under development. Atak 2 will have increased payload capacity and modern avionic systems. Whether this is the attack platform considered at this stage is yet to be determined.

On 13 July this year, the company announced it had finalised 30 T129 Atak helicopters to be delivered to Pakistan. The contract also included: logistics; ammunition; spares; ground support equipment and training.

The first aircraft is anticipated to be delivered within 12 months, Kotil said. He explained the attack helicopters alongside the Anka UAV have been received well by the Turkish armed forces. The service has been utilising the aircraft for interior operations as well as border security missions.

‘We have signed the [Pakistan] contract already. The deliveries are set for less than a year for the first purchase. There will be 30 machines altogether. [For] the Turkish Land Forces we have delivered 35 [T129] already,’ Kotil said.


The company is hopeful for more orders and whilst he would not divulge prospects; it is believed Kazakhstan could purchase the T129 to bolster its ageing fleet when it looks to modernise its aircraft in the near-future.

The company’s civil platform the T625 is due for its first flight imminently and is on schedule. ‘The first flight is this September 6th. It will be around 6am in the morning [because] it is cooler in the morning. We [will] finish the transmission, we [will] test the transmission and this Monday [23 July] we have the first engine fire,’ he said to Shephard.

A mock-up of the company’s light attack Hürjet platform is on display at Farnborough and Kotil is hopeful that in 2021, the aircraft will take its first flight.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...rough-2018-turkish-aerospace-expanding-helic/
 
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The newly-rebranded Turkish Aerospace, formerly Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), is pushing to dominate the medium to heavy helicopter markets through two new models.

The aircraft will be spanning the civil and military side; however, the company currently awaits confirmation from the Turkish government to proceed from the quotation it supplied to development stages.

In an interview with Shephard at Paris Air Show in 2017, Metİn Olcay, business development of the helicopter group at the-then TAI, explained to Shephard that the company was looking at growing its helicopter portfolio.

‘We want to complete our range of helicopters, we want more than two [aircraft]. In 2018 we will be starting on other helicopter designs, smaller or larger [than the existing rotorcraft] - it will be customer dependent,’ Olcay said.

Temel Kotil, president and CEO at Turkish Aerospace, confirmed to Shephard that talks were underway with the Turkish government as the company prepared to expand further into the medium to heavy segments.

Currently, the company has the 5t T129 Atak and the 6t T625 multirole helicopter. The current vision is for a couple more platforms bigger than the incumbent aircraft.

Kotil said that a quotation has been provided to the Turkish government in relation to a new 8t attack helicopter which he is hopeful to sign a contract for in the next couple of months. The company, Kotil explained, was with the government also exploring a 12t civil helicopter which would carry 20-plus passengers, although this was still in its infancy.

In October 2017, the company announced that the Atak 2, a combination of the T129 Atak and T625, was under development. Atak 2 will have increased payload capacity and modern avionic systems. Whether this is the attack platform considered at this stage is yet to be determined.

On 13 July this year, the company announced it had finalised 30 T129 Atak helicopters to be delivered to Pakistan. The contract also included: logistics; ammunition; spares; ground support equipment and training.

The first aircraft is anticipated to be delivered within 12 months, Kotil said. He explained the attack helicopters alongside the Anka UAV have been received well by the Turkish armed forces. The service has been utilising the aircraft for interior operations as well as border security missions.

‘We have signed the [Pakistan] contract already. The deliveries are set for less than a year for the first purchase. There will be 30 machines altogether. [For] the Turkish Land Forces we have delivered 35 [T129] already,’ Kotil said.


The company is hopeful for more orders and whilst he would not divulge prospects; it is believed Kazakhstan could purchase the T129 to bolster its ageing fleet when it looks to modernise its aircraft in the near-future.

The company’s civil platform the T625 is due for its first flight imminently and is on schedule. ‘The first flight is this September 6th. It will be around 6am in the morning [because] it is cooler in the morning. We [will] finish the transmission, we [will] test the transmission and this Monday [23 July] we have the first engine fire,’ he said to Shephard.

A mock-up of the company’s light attack Hürjet platform is on display at Farnborough and Kotil is hopeful that in 2021, the aircraft will take its first flight.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...rough-2018-turkish-aerospace-expanding-helic/

Civilian/Military utility helicopters
-3 tons (?)
-6 tons (T-625) 12+ passenger
-12 tons 20+ passenger

Attack helicopters
-Atak-1 (5tons)
-Atak-2 (8tons)
 
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The T625 project is planned as a product family starting from 4 tones and reaching up to 12 tons.

Apart from TAI, there is also a light civil helicopter project initiated by Havesan in 2016. 4 seats and for air-taxi, fire fighting, health services, observation, coast guard is targeted to use in areas such as. Among the main objectives of the project is the certification by AESA. The project is supported by Tübitak and progressed through the consultancy of two different universities.

Also, the T70 general purpose helicopter project is very similar to the Atak-T129.

T700-GE-701D will be integrated in the TEI facilities with 60% domestic industry contribution. Domestic industry participation share in all T70s with 11 main subcontractors is about 70%. In addition, depot level maintenance of the helicopters will take place in Turkey. Together with all these, TAI will have the right to sell to third countries. The T70 will be one of the most important milestones for the Turkish aerospace industry. (This helicopter is best in its class)

So, Includes under license and domestic design , the Turkish aerospace industry will produce 6 or 8 different helicopter bodies , within 10-12 years.

( This message based on informations mostly given by the Cabatli master in different forum titles :D )
 
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The T625 project is planned as a product family starting from 4 tones and reaching up to 12 tons.

Apart from TAI, there is also a light civil helicopter project initiated by Havesan in 2016. 4 seats and for air-taxi, fire fighting, health services, observation, coast guard is targeted to use in areas such as. Among the main objectives of the project is the certification by AESA. The project is supported by Tübitak and progressed through the consultancy of two different universities.

Also, the T70 general purpose helicopter project is very similar to the Atak-T129.

T700-GE-701D will be integrated in the TEI facilities with 60% domestic industry contribution. Domestic industry participation share in all T70s with 11 main subcontractors is about 70%. In addition, depot level maintenance of the helicopters will take place in Turkey. Together with all these, TAI will have the right to sell to third countries. The T70 will be one of the most important milestones for the Turkish aerospace industry. (This helicopter is best in its class)

So, Includes under license and domestic design , the Turkish aerospace industry will produce 6 or 8 different helicopter bodies , within 10-12 years.

( This message based on informations mostly given by the Cabatli master in different forum titles :D )
The Pakistan Army has aging Puma helicopters. Granted, Pakistan's Pumas are the smaller IAR330/SA330s, which have about as much seating capacity as the AW139 (which the PAF already inducted). So it'll be interesting to see how the PAA looks at replacing the Puma, i.e. AW139 or T-70 from Turkish Aerospace?
 
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