Pakistan army says US scapegoating

[Irfan Baloch]

All the 9/11 attackers were Saudi nationals, their alleged mother ship, OBL, another Saudi national, groomed by CIA, is now out of the equation....... there is no reason left for the Americans to remain in Afghanistan. Pakistan should conduct operations, where ever deemed necessary on it's own accord and benefit.

I agree, but it depends on the US policy makers. if they are indeed to secure the oil and gas routes from the central Asia and contain China then they wont be in a hurry to pack up

Suffice to say, the Americans so far have been fortunate for, the friendly fire thingy can happen both ways, it may be just the rude awakening that is required.

Canadians and British have also received the friendly fire from Americans. to my knowledge they never done that to Americans despite suffering many times. I dont think such incident can happen from Pakistani side because it is not operating on Afghanistan side.

the closest it gets is mortar or artillery fire when it suspects the infiltration of terrorists into Pakistan. Americans dont man posts on the borders as Pakistan does so they are never in danger.

wishing such incident from Pakistan side is meaningless because the amount of storm that will create on the US side might not be sustainable by our leadership. remember that its the stronger party that always walks away free whether or not its guilty.

 

[Awesome]

Better policies would avoid Pakistan being painted with a big bull's eye on its back as is happening slowly but surely. Mere complaining about any perceived unfairness would likely not be very productive.

So you tell me what should we do?

Open a front on NWA?

 

[lem34]

Change your mind if u still think he is a Pakistani from any angle.

No if you look at his earlier threads when he first joined there were some anti or not pro American threads I think over a period there has been a noticeable change. Sometimes I think in response to what some say on here

 

[WAQAS119]

Better policies would avoid Pakistan being painted with a big bull's eye on its back as is happening slowly but surely. Mere complaining about any perceived unfairness would likely not be very productive.

You are leaned, to prove Amerika's point of view, to an extent that you have lost your credibility and effectiveness. Believe me your post are getting crappy day by day. Same old rhetoric every time. Take a brake son.

 

[VCheng]

So you tell me what should we do?

Open a front on NWA?

What is needed in NWA is effective governance, which is not necessarily achievable by war. The goal should be to extend the writ of civil government and to eliminate terrorist sanctuaries. NWA feeds on its long tradition of lawlessness that has been tolerated by the government far too long. If their leaders realize that is no longer the case, they can be brought to heel.

Therefore, the first step needs to be a clear and open change of Pakistani policies that have covertly supported terrorism as strategic tools until now, and then follow through with other steps, with international support as, when and if needed.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@ Cheng - N.Waz. ops was never off the table. It's been discussed for months. Not months actually - over a year.

As has been discussed, the forces are spread out thinly. If they just blindly marched into N.Waz. what about all the gains made in Kurram (ongoing), Sawat/Bajaur (largely concluded) S.waz. (still there) Orakzai (still there) Khyber, Mohmand etc.

They're good, but they're not God. Can't be everywhere at once. The enemy fights, puts on civilian garb and blends in with the locals. Their support is diminishing but they still do have pockets of support. This is especially the case in N.Waz. where you have different militant outfits, some which are at odds with eachother and openly fighting eachother over 'influence'


it's a multi pronged approach. Build partnership with pro-govt. tribes (who have risked their lives but doing the right thing)...build alliances, gather intel on enemy movements; who they are talking to etc. (crucial). When the time is right, the Army should (and likely will) go in.


its already been discussed so many times here. What PA wont do is be told when to go in where. It's our God dam country and they'll do whatever they damnwell please whenever they damnwell please. They know the environment better and they know when is the best time to tackle this issue once and for all. But going in doesn't mean we must allow all the gains we've made elsewhere to be reversed -- knowing the enemy fight this way (fighting, hiding and then slipping into neighbouring areas where they re-group and fight again)

 

[VCheng]

@ Cheng - N.Waz. ops was never off the table. It's been discussed for months. Not months actually - over a year.

As has been discussed, the forces are spread out thinly. If they just blindly marched into N.Waz. what about all the gains made in Kurram (ongoing), Sawat/Bajaur (largely concluded) S.waz. (still there) Orakzai (still there) Khyber, Mohmand etc.

They're good, but they're not God. Can't be everywhere at once. The enemy fights, puts on civilian garb and blends in with the locals. Their support is diminishing but they still do have pockets of support. This is especially the case in N.Waz. where you have different militant outfits, some which are at odds with eachother and openly fighting eachother over 'influence'


it's a multi pronged approach. Build partnership with pro-govt. tribes (who have risked their lives but doing the right thing)...build alliances, gather intel on enemy movements; who they are talking to etc. (crucial). When the time is right, the Army should (and likely will) go in.


its already been discussed so many times here. What PA wont do is be told when to go in where. It's our God dam country and they'll do whatever they damnwell please whenever they damnwell please. They know the environment better and they know when is the best time to tackle this issue once and for all. But going in doesn't mean we must allow all the gains we've made elsewhere to be reversed -- knowing the enemy fight this way (fighting, hiding and then slipping into neighbouring areas where they re-group and fight again)

Actually I agree with most of your post. What I fail to understand, and criticize, is the Pakistani failure to capitalize on all this effort into tangible political and economic benefits internationally.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What is needed in NWA is effective governance, which is not necessarily achievable by war. The goal should be to extend the writ of civil government and to eliminate terrorist sanctuaries. NWA feeds on its long tradition of lawlessness that has been tolerated by the government far too long. If their leaders realize that is no longer the case, they can be brought to heel.

this part of your post i whole-heartedly agree with...

fed govt. does need to establish its footprint and WRIT in these areas, no doubt.

Actually I agree with most of your post. What I fail to understand, and criticize, is the Pakistani failure to capitalize on all this effort into tangible political and economic benefits internationally.

in other words, we should have blindly gone in without doing proper planning (which would guarantee needless casualties) and bleed a little more just so that Zardari could open his palms and beg for more so-called "aid"

because on "economic benefits" they haven't done a very good job have they........we're exporting mangos to the United States, in 4-5 years this is our accomplishment

"political' benefits --- well if my memory serves me corectly Pakistan was the "darling" of western media from 2001 to 2006/07. From that point onwards, we started f*Cking up on our PR

but PR is only one small picture....the West (namely the US) has one enormous luxury on its side. Far-reaching media outlets, and a media that largely tows the (official) lines of the incumbent administration


if Mr. Obummer and her royal thigh-ness (clinton) are naraaz with Pakistan, so is their media

 

[Agni5000]

Well if you slap someone don't expect that other person at most will slap back.

He can kick or shoot.

 

[VCheng]

this part of your post i whole-heartedly agree with...

fed govt. does need to establish its footprint and WRIT in these areas, no doubt.

Pakistan could have its cards smarter, by asking for direct social development programs in those areas funded internationally. It is a pity that corruption in government led to donors demanding auditable trails, and the Army scuttling the direct funding as a perceived affront to sovereignty

in other words, we should have blindly gone in without doing proper planning (which would guarantee needless casualties) and bleed a little more just so that Zardari could open his palms and beg for more so-called "aid"

Not really, with proper air cover and intel support, losses on the ground would have been minimized. Zaradari is a whole another issue which bleeds Pakistan regardless of NWA operations.

because on "economic benefits" they haven't done a very good job have they........we're exporting mangos to the United States, in 4-5 years this is our accomplishment

Not even that I think. I would love to be able to buy Pakistani mangoes here, but so far cannot. I have to go to Toronto still.

 

[darkinsky]

if america is scapegoating then why pakistan army is not bringing down the drones?

 

[VCheng]

.............

"political' benefits --- well if my memory serves me corectly Pakistan was the "darling" of western media from 2001 to 2006/07. From that point onwards, we started f*Cking up on our PR

but PR is only one small picture....the West (namely the US) has one enormous luxury on its side. Far-reaching media outlets, and a media that largely tows the (official) lines of the incumbent administration


if Mr. Obummer and her royal thigh-ness (clinton) are naraaz with Pakistan, so is their media

Well, admitting that it was Pakistan that started effing up, as you put it, their own PR from 06 onwards, is a start to changing policies that will undo the damage done so far. It is not too late to reverse it.

 

[Solomon2]

For the past 6 years the U.N. Security Council has classified reports of Pakistan's compliance (and non-compliance) with binding U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373. The U.S., along with the other permanent members of the SC, have kept the spirit of this by remaining mostly silent on the details and refraining from the harshest and most specific allegations.

I think this general is talking way too much. If I hear much more of this from Pakistanis - for imo you need to be engaged in constructive self-criticism rather than empty accusations aimed at foreigners - I'll write my representative and Senator asking them to pull the "silent" clause keeping the UNSC mouth shut. Once they do that it'll be everyone against Pakistan - for the Chinese are getting pissed to, especially at the Pakistani line about China's unquestioning support.

 

[Aslan]

For the past 6 years the U.N. Security Council has classified reports of Pakistan's compliance (and non-compliance) with binding U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373. The U.S., along with the other permanent members of the SC, have kept the spirit of this by remaining mostly silent on the details and refraining from the harshest and most specific allegations.

I think this general is talking way too much. If I hear much more of this from Pakistanis - for imo you need to be engaged in constructive self-criticism rather than empty accusations aimed at foreigners - I'll write my representative and Senator asking them to pull the "silent" clause keeping the UNSC mouth shut. Once they do that it'll be everyone against Pakistan - for the Chinese are getting pissed to, especially at the Pakistani line about China's unquestioning support.

So when a Pakistani general talks, presenting a Pakistani PT of view, he is talking too much. And when any tom dick and harry from thr american side runs his mouth like a delusional retard, leveling all kinds of accusations against Pakistan it is ok. Please do write to your rep and ask him to do what he can. I wish I could slap a keep it shut clause at you. But alas here we Pakistanis respect your right to be stupid, no matter how much we hate it. Oh and please do let us know what and when the chinese told u.

 

[SamranAli]

atleast somebody speaks after all...khamoshi ka bycott