Pakistan Army maybe stationed in Saudi Arabia if needed.

[MastanKhan]

You work in some sort of

Hi,

Let s not discuss it any further.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Pakistan Army cannot spare 2 Divns at this point of time and they shouldn't.
It will put a lot of pressure on them.

Not sure about 2 Divs

But 2 brigade, is possible.

We are hurting for hard cash.

And each sepoy can fetch $500 or so + free room and board. Officers get more.

Civilians overseas are maxing out on foreign remittance. We don't have ENOUGH exports + zero tourism of dollars, so the only thing we have left is to use our army jawans and send them to off shore projects. One aspect is blue helments. But there is a limit. And competition is there.

But for Saudi, Jordan, gulf etc. our army is the best available option. Loyal and free from intra-Arab $hit.

Oh this is nothing new.,

Pakistan progressed in 50s from the same kind of model

peace

This news is not correct. Most importantly there are no American soldiers present in KSA aside from a few advisers.

Pakistan like any other responsible country should first serve their own people before engaging anywhere else.

Yeah. the news is misleading when it says KSA

the reality is about GCC

Americans want to pull out and someone has to replace boots on the ground.

Our retired soliders are already deployed in Bahrain.

This will be just an extension of that (if it happens)

 

[al-Hasani]

Yeah. the news is misleading when it says KSA

the reality is about GCC

Americans want to pull out and someone has to replace boots on the ground.

Our retired soliders are already deployed in Bahrain.

This will be just an extension of that (if it happens)

Not sure about that one. Bahrain is not comparable to the wider GCC because they are just a small island with a population of about 1.5 million.

This news would have made more sense had this been Qatar, UAE or Bahrain.

Kuwait and UAE have already introduced compulsory military service so the region is getting more and more militarized. That has been an ongoing trend since the 1980's - just take a look at the military expenditures of the region.

That is not strange considering the very strategic location of the GCC, the immense natural wealth that it sits on and controls and the volatile immediate region.

I don't see the Americans leaving anytime soon. From Bahrain, Kuwait and Qatar that is. I don't see them leaving Germany, Japan, UK, Cuba and many, many other countries either despite them focusing more on the Pacific and the immediate region bordering China - their biggest rivals.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Not sure about that one. Bahrain is not comparable to the wider GCC because they are just a small island with a population of about 1.5 million.

This news would have made more sense had this been Qatar, UAE or Bahrain.

Kuwait and UAE have already introduced compulsory military service so the region is getting more and more militarized. That has been an ongoing trend since the 1980's - just take a look at the military expenditures of the region.

That is not strange considering the very strategic location of the GCC, the immense natural wealth that it sits on and controls and the volatile immediate region.

I don't see the Americans leaving anytime soon. From Bahrain, Kuwait and Qatar that is. I don't see them leaving Germany, Japan, UK, Cuba and many, many other countries either despite them focusing more on the Pacific and the immediate region bordering China - their biggest rivals.

makes sense

 

[al-Hasani]

makes sense

What is correct though is that USA is less reliant on the natural resources of the ME BUT as any other major superpower they still want to retain their influence because the ME still continues to be a major crossroad and very important region when it comes to geopolitics, trade, natural resources etc.

But notice the role of China. Who is the by far biggest trading partner of KSA and the GCC? No, not USA nor EU but the very same CHINA that the US is combating right now and has its occasional harmless dogfights with for now at least. The Chinese will no doubt replace USA should they be stupid enough to leave the region altogether. This would mean that China extends their influence to the whole ME region. Add to that the Chinese influence in Africa that is only growing. Two upcoming and huge future markets.

If I was an American decision maker I would slightly decrease my focus on the ME, which we see, in return of focusing on Africa, Latin America and most importantly the Pacific region. Latin America is USA's natural backyard so I don't see China ever threatening them there for real.

It might be a cliché but had Syria been strategically important and blessed with natural riches the Americans would have acted differently than what we see today.

Europe is declining on all levels and no matter what happens then USA does not consider Europe their equals but Europe and US will remain the closest allies.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What is correct though is that USA is less reliant on the natural resources of the ME BUT as any other major superpower they still want to retain their influence because the ME still continues to be a major crossroad and very important region when it comes to geopolitics, trade, natural resources etc.

But notice the role of China. Who is the by far biggest trading partner of KSA and the GCC? No, not USA nor EU but the very same CHINA that the US is combating right now and has its occasional harmless dogfights with for now at least. The Chinese will no doubt replace USA should they be stupid enough to leave the region altogether. This would mean that China extends their influence of the whole ME region. Add to that the Chinese influence in Africa that is only growing. Two upcoming and huge future markets.

If I was an American decision maker I would slightly decrease my focus on the ME, which we see, in return of focusing on Africa, Latin America and most importantly the Pacific region.

It might be a cliche but had Syria been strategically important and blessed with natural riches the Americans would have acted differently that what we see today.

Europe is declining on all levels and no matter what happens then USA does not consider Europe their equals but Europe and US will remain the closest allies.

For at least 20-30 years Chinese cannot deploy forces in or near ME.

They don't have logistics to support that kind of thing.

 

[KingMamba]

only if RSA is under threat, 2 divisions of PA are earmarked for air-lift to RSA.

So PA is a mercenary force?

 

[FaujHistorian]

So PA is a mercenary force.

By your definition every American/NATO solider deployed overseas is a mercenary.

But then you will be utterly wrong.

 

[al-Hasani]

For at least 20-30 years Chinese cannot deploy forces in or near ME.

They don't have logistics to support that kind of thing.

That is correct. Only the US has that as of now. But the point is that influence is not only measured in military terms. Don't ever underestimate the influence of money and politics. China has a tremendous influence in the ME and Africa.

IF, that is not going to happen if you ask me, the Americans decided to leave the ME region tomorrow then don't think that the Chinese will not take their chances as quickly as the Americans left. It will be a golden opportunity to further extend their influence and geographically speaking the ME region is much, much closer to China than USA.

They don't need to have troops there to replace the influence.

Even so, China will catch USA in terms of military technology in 20 years or so. It is a question of time.

 

[KingMamba]

By your definition every American/NATO solider deployed overseas is a mercenary.

But then you will be utterly wrong.

Difference being NATO troops are looking out for its own interests while what is PA army looking out for?

That is correct. Only the US has that as of now. But the point is that influence is not only measured in military terms. Don't ever underestimate the influence of money and politics. China has a tremendous influence in the ME and Africa.

IF, that is not going to happen if you ask me, the Americans decided to leave the ME region tomorrow then don't think that the Chinese will not take their chances as quickly as the Americans left.

They don't need to have troops there to replace the influence.

Even so, China will catch USA in terms of military technology in 20 years or so. It is a question of time.

Chinese are not the type of people to deploy troops overseas, they have a lot of economic deals going on in the region though and they will use that to gain influence.

No, not the secret service.

Just tell him your uncle is Abdullah.

 

[al-Hasani]

Difference being NATO troops are looking out for its own interests while what is PA army looking out for?



Chinese are not the type of people to deploy troops overseas, they have a lot of economic deals going on in the region though and they will use that to gain influence.



Just tell him your uncle is Abdullah.

Yes, I am just saying that influence does not necessarily include having 2-3 military bases or military presence. That is a big part of it indeed but economic and political influence is just as important.

Also I am of the opinion that military bases are not needed to gain influence but only part of the package - a significant part indeed.

Most importantly none of us will know the military strength of China in let us say 15-20 years time. It would not be outrageous to claim that China could replace USA's role in a similar fashion IF they get their chance of doing that.

 

[KingMamba]

Yes, I am just saying that influence does not necessarily include having 2-3 military bases or military presence. That is a big part of it indeed but economic and political influence is just as important.

Also I am of the opinion that military bases are not needed to gain influence but only part of the package - a significant part indeed.

Most importantly none of us will know the military strength of China in let us say 15-20 years time. It would not be outrageous to claim that China could replace USA's role in a similar fashion IF they get their chance of doing that.

Nobody knows what the state of the region will be come that time either for all you know there can be a couple of new nations, a couple of less, or dare I say it peace in the middle east.

 

[al-Hasani]

Nobody knows what the state of the region will be come that time either for all you know there can be a couple of new nations, a couple of less, or dare I say it peace in the middle east.

Yeah, everything needs to be taken into account when you make such a analysis. But we are just having a quick overall chat. I am discussing from the point of view that says that GCC will remain stable. I mean the ME will continue to be the one of the main trade and geopolitical routes/areas of the world as it has been since the dawn of civilization no matter what happens. Likewise all the natural resources are not going anywhere.

On the Arabian Peninsula I can't see any new formation of states. At most Yemen becoming federal which is necessary. Rather I predict the smaller GCC states to merge with KSA one day in the future and maybe there will also one day be a "United Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula" or something like that.

The only other states that are rich in natural resources of the region are Iraq which is the one that probably will get divided somehow and then you have Iran which could potentially also get divided although it is less likely.

Believe it or not but I actually predict that the ME will turn into a more peaceful direction than the opposite. As soon as the "Arab Spring" ends.

 

[KingMamba]

Yeah, everything needs to be taken into account when you make such a analysis. But we are just having a quick overall chat. I am discussing from the point of view that says that GCC will remain stable. I mean the ME will continue to be the one of the main trade and geopolitical routes/areas of the world as it has been since the dawn of civilization no matter what happens. Likewise all the natural resources are not going anywhere.

On the Arabian Peninsula I can't see any new formation of states. At most Yemen becoming federal which is necessary. Rather I predict the smaller GCC states to merge with KSA one day in the future and maybe there will also one day be a "United Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula" or something like that.

The only other states that are rich in natural resources of the region is Iraq which is the one that probably will get divided somehow and then you have Iran which could potentially also get divided although it is less likely.

Believe it or not but I actually predict that the ME will turn into a more peaceful direction than the opposite. As soon as the "Arab Spring" ends.

Yes, I also see the whole of the peninsula uniting in the future. So my question to you is would a united Arabian Peninsula want foreign presence on its soil in the form of troops?

 

[al-Hasani]

Yes, I also see the whole of the peninsula uniting in the future. So my question to you is would a united Arabian Peninsula want foreign presence on its soil in the form of troops?

Well, if we are talking about one united entity that in let us say 2030 will have a population close to 150 million and sit on enormous natural resources and hopefully by then be much more self-sufficient when it comes to technology, the military sector etc. then the answer is a no. Right now you have a lot of smaller GCC states that are located on the AP who have nothing to lose. It is in their own very interest to have American troops. Because how can tiny Bahrain protect itself from any neighbors? Permit an American base and the ruler is safe. Win, win situation.

But nevertheless even a united Arabian Peninsula would not be more than a regional and energy power with significant political, religious, cultural etc. influence. Not more than this. It would by no means challenge the main powers (USA, China etc.) despite the riches.

The only such entity from the ME who could MAYBE do that would be a united Arab world. If the Arab League member states became one federal entity. And even then they would need at least 20-30 years to truly rival the powers due to the need of improvement on those sectors I am talking about. If not much more and there would always be a potential for internal conflicts etc. That you don't see in USA or China.

But that's just my take on it.