Pakistan and Israel’s Secret Diplomacy

[BHarwana]

Recognizing Israel does not delegitimize the need for a pro palestenian solution nor does it mean somehow Pakistan supports Israel

I have a question. Can recognizing Israel help Palestine?

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

diplomatic relationship can change many things.Like Palestinians could use some of the diplomatic help they can get because the war hasn't done anything good for them.

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

I have a question. Can recognizing Israel help Palestine?

If we want to recognize accupation of Palestine by the Zionists then lets first recognize occupation of Kashmir by the Indians and withdraw from Azad Kashmir !

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistani F-16s flew with Israeli spares sourced via Jordan in the 90s
Early Pakistani UAV programs used Israeli flight computers

Nothing new to learn here
Both on relations and the wasteful stubbornness of Pakistani society

Recognizing Israel does not delegitimize the need for a pro palestenian solution nor does it mean somehow Pakistan supports Israel

Is it legitimate to recognise a thief as a legitimate owner of the stolen goods? By recognising Israel we are legitimising the theft of Palestinian land and acceptance of the genocide that is taking place by the apartheid regime of Israel.

 

[SQ8]

I have a question. Can recognizing Israel help Palestine?

I believe so
If anything, Israel desired a relationship with us during the Peres years and was looking for us to play a role in the peace process

A non arab country might have had a greater impact in influencing this policy

One has to look beyond just palestine and Israel towards the players that work behind both

Iran for eg uses Palestine as an issue to assert its presence in Lebanon and Syria

The GCC arabs in turn have started working with the Government of Israel backdoor to keep Iran in check

The people in Gaza and west bank don't matter to these two parties
In reality Pakistan may be among the few states(not people- states) who geniunly does care for the Palestinians while most Arab states offer lip service. The Israelis know this and have tried to get a goodwill from us towards them as well.

What all these attempts have been is to get Israel off as an antagonist providing more than usual assistance to India.

In addition, within international diplomacy there is potential to use these soft links on other matters

Nowhere does it signify to Palestine that we have abandoned them nor does it change our stand on the issue

However, since international relations and general statecraft are beyond the general Pakistani population who are usually out of their depth beyond attacking and destroying their own public property to express discontent at issues; none of this will happen

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

I believe so

Trump won elections because he rightfully campaigned on disconnect between elites in Washington and common people. In Pakistan too we have some who have plans/policies against the wishes of the common people. We will also rise against these elites. If you want sell off Palestinians then also sell of Kashmiris and withdraw from Kashmir and recognize it as part of India.

 

[BHarwana]

I believe so
If anything, Israel desired a relationship with us during the Peres years and was looking for us to play a role in the peace process

We had a day one stance against Israel and with Israel making more settlements in Palestine's territory and Pakistan recognizing it will legitimize those settlements. Keeping Iran contained is Arab agenda, Pakistan is not a sectarian country and no one can turn it into a one, for Pakistan both KSA and Iran are equal as Muslim nations as strategic partners Pakistan might have different priorities.

One has to look beyond just palestine and Israel towards the players that work behind both

Iran for eg uses Palestine as an issue to assert its presence in Lebanon and Syria

Iran's presence in Syria and Lebanon against Israel is help for Palestine and Increasing Iran's influence is better than US influence and European influence in the region.

The GCC arabs in turn have started working with the Government of Israel backdoor to keep Iran in check

GCC is moving into Israeli back door but GCC has also been a big supporter of Palestine and has poured in billions in the region. They don't have effective military and what they have is funds and they support Palestine with that.

The people in Gaza and west bank don't matter to these two parties
In reality Pakistan may be among the few states(not people- states) who geniunly does care for the Palestinians while most Arab states offer lip service. The Israelis know this and have tried to get a goodwill from us towards them as well.

What all these attempts have been is to get Israel off as an antagonist providing more than usual assistance to India.

In addition, within international diplomacy there is potential to use these soft links on other matters

Nowhere does it signify to Palestine that we have abandoned them nor does it change our stand on the issue

However, since international relations and general statecraft are beyond the general Pakistani population who are usually out of their depth beyond attacking and destroying their own public property to express discontent at issues; none of this will happen

Israel will never understand the language of love they are pushing more and more settlements so I think until they retreat to 1965 decided borders Israel should not be recognized and after that the right time to recognize Israel will be after the official and actual partition not before that, it will compromise the ideology of Palestine.

 

[mike2000 is back]

that is true, relations with Israel not allowed for us. only brother Muslim countries like Jordan, Turkey and Egypt can have them and will still be allowed to keep their faith but our mullah will declare us all heathens if we do same thing openly

Lol Guess you also have your former Islamists leader Zia ul aq or whatever his name for indulging in an even more extreme version of Islam, thus making it even more impossible (a taboo/crime) to have relations whatsoever with Israel.

I agree with you though, Pakistan seems to have taken this Islamic flag bearer to a whole new level. Every sane country should look after their national interests and cooperate with any country as long as it serves their intetests/contributes to their growth/development, Religion should have no say/part in that.

 

[SQ8]

Trump won elections because he rightfully campaigned on disconnect between elites in Washington and common people. In Pakistan too we have some who have plans/policies against the wishes of the common people. We will also rise against these elites. If you want sell off Palestinians then also sell of Kashmiris and withdraw from Kashmir and recognize it as part of India.

Not really
Clearly you have zero clue of the US election
It was won on the basis of lies regarding deteriorating economics and fear of immigrants
It was won on inspiring fear and hatred that inspires genocide

It actually changed nothing and the same elites came into power
But it did create bloodthirsty people within the population that voted for him

These people have little or mediocre education
Very little exposure to the world and are generally ignorant & hateful
They abhor research and getting information and prefer their ideas from tabloids or poorly referenced extremist sites
They are open to ideas like the holocaust happening again for Muslims
So if you are a similar person then I can see why you made a reactionary blanket statement

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

These people have little or mediocre education
Very little exposure to the world and are generally ignorant & hateful
They abhor research and getting information and prefer their ideas from tabloids or poorly referenced extremist sites
They are open to ideas like the holocaust happening again for Muslims
So if you are a similar person then I can see why you made a reactionary blanket statement

Nonetheless the plans of miniscule elite will never be accepted by the common people. When you try to push common people too far then the Salman Taseer incidents happens. Even now Mumtaz Qadri's grave has became huge attraction for common people. So are you open to the same policy in Kashmir as in Palestine ? We can then cut our defense budget by 80% and use that money for health, education and infrastructure instead of nuclear weapons ! Let us see what the Armed forces will say about cutting 80% of their personnel, budget and pensions.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Before having friendship remember"
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

Funny enough I agree with you. I believe This is exactly the believe the vast majority of Pakistani have towards Israel : i.e it's total destruction.
I believe asking Pakistanis to recognise or have relations with Israel is even more laughable than asking Pakistanis to rise up against their blasphemy law. It will never happen, except the leaders want to incur the wrath of the people thereby risking their position, increasing instability and Islamic terrorism/extremism. So this talk of having any relations with Israel is a pipe dream I'm afraid. Lol

 

[SQ8]

We had a day one stance against Israel and with Israel making more settlements in Palestine's territory and Pakistan recognizing it will legitimize those settlements. Keeping Iran contained is Arab agenda, Pakistan is not a sectarian country and no one can turn it into a one, for Pakistan both KSA and Iran are equal as Muslim nations as strategic partners Pakistan might have different priorities.

Iran's presence in Syria and Lebanon against Israel is help for Palestine and Increasing Iran's influence is better than US influence and European influence in the region.


GCC is moving into Israeli back door but GCC has also been a big supporter of Palestine and has poured in billions in the region. They don't have effective military and what they have is funds and they support Palestine with that.


Israel will never understand the language of love they are pushing more and more settlements so I think until they retreat to 1965 decided borders Israel should not be recognized and after that the right time to recognize Israel will be after the official and actual partition not before that, it will compromise the ideology of Palestine.

If you think Israel is retreating
You living a wet dream
If anything , they are looking to expel palestenians to the Sinai in Egypt and the west bank ones to Jordan.

If you think the GCC supports the palestinians because of love, that is also a wet dream; beyond 73 the GCC arabs have focused more on Iran and essentially manage Palestine for the Israelis so it does not become a total powderkeg

This isnt utopia or an ideal world

 

[mike2000 is back]

No one even dares to speak against Israel and their ruthless killings. Pakistan as a nation should reafirm and solidify its realtions with Iran, Russia and China in order to better prepare itself against malicious designs by US and israel

You do know that Russia and China who you are calling upon to unite and fight "USRAEL" have good relations with Israel right?
Some Islamists are really funny

 

[BHarwana]

If you think Israel is retreating
You living a wet dream
If anything , they are looking to expel palestenians to the Sinai in Egypt and the west bank ones to Jordan.

If you think the GCC supports the palestinians because of love, that is also a wet dream; beyond 73 the GCC arabs have focused more on Iran and essentially manage Palestine for the Israelis so it does not become a total powderkeg

This isnt utopia or an ideal world

If Israel is not retreating then we should not help Israel by recognize it, If we cannot fight for them at-least we should support them with an anti-Israel stance and I am more of an opinion that Israel faces a threat from Pakistan and Pakistan will be decisive in the executing hit and run strikes on Israel, I am of this opinion due to the occasional and often presence of PAF at Turkish air bases.