Pakistan Air Force Transport

[Readerdefence]

PIA never had any A330s only recently retired A310s which are no longer airworthy

Hi they can become airworthy if they haven't sold like peanuts
Or been given to airforce without getting any peanuts and they can make them airworthy
With. Their budget
Thx

 

[Captain77W]

Hi they can become airworthy if they haven't sold like peanuts
Or been given to airforce without getting any peanuts and they can make them airworthy
With. Their budget
Thx

They have reached their airframe cycle limit and it will be unsafe for them to continue to fly Best option for the PAF is to get Barely used A340s from the Desert and convert those

 

[fatman17]

Just a nice pic

 

[Incog_nito]

View attachment 373783 C130 boneyard?

So no need to worry about spares

Pakistan #PAF #Il-78 at #Faisal. Before leaving for #Russia? GE DOI 2/4/17 & 1/31/17
View attachment 386811 View attachment 386812

PAF should acquire at least some 7-8 additional IL-76s and try to work with Ukraine or Russia in building an overhaul facility in Pakistan for it. As I think the role of these aircraft are increasing and PAF might need around 15-20 of such aircraft soon!

 

[fatman17]

So no need to worry about spares


PAF should acquire at least some 7-8 additional IL-76s and try to work with Ukraine or Russia in building an overhaul facility in Pakistan for it. As I think the role of these aircraft are increasing and PAF might need around 15-20 of such aircraft soon!

I doubt it. Both Herks and Il78s are being upgraded currently.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.

The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.

On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.

I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).

 

[Gufi]

The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.

It is worrying that our strike platforms have no air to air refuelling capability limiting the options of air bases they can be deployed from for offensive missions. Looks like a very defensive approach is being taken by the PAF with the missiles replacing the role of destroying targets on the other side of the border.
With contested airspace, I do wonder how easy refuelling would be in contested airspace as it is.

On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.

probably some conditions against using them for refuelling. Also it does seem that the F 16 is the last plane we will be getting from the USA, so an investment would not be especially appealing.

 

[The Accountant]

The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.

The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.

On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.

I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).

Is there ny possibility f developing such a system at home ?

Furthermore, do our F16 have IFR probe or will US ever allow to have it (If we already don't have it) ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is there ny possibility f developing such a system at home ?

Furthermore, do our F16 have IFR probe or will US ever allow to have it (If we already don't have it) ?

We'd be talking about 4 aircraft at most, it would be cost effective - and quicker - to import the airliner and Cobham WARP and undertake the integration and testing work at Kamra. The PAF's F-16s can refuel via boom, but for hose-and-drogue, it can (technically) be done using the Block-52's CFT and the external/wing-based fuel tanks on the others.

It is worrying that our strike platforms have no air to air refuelling capability limiting the options of air bases they can be deployed from for offensive missions. Looks like a very defensive approach is being taken by the PAF with the missiles replacing the role of destroying targets on the other side of the border.
With contested airspace, I do wonder how easy refuelling would be in contested airspace as it is.

probably some conditions against using them for refuelling. Also it does seem that the F 16 is the last plane we will be getting from the USA, so an investment would not be especially appealing.

Not sure if the restrictions - if any - are decisive. There are many civilian airliners and jets that have been converted for military purposes, be it IFR, ISR, EW/ECM/ESM and MPA.

It's not just refueling for strike. The JF-17 is a small aircraft, by having IFR available some units can undertake longer sorties and/or carry more weapons and fewer (or no) fuel tanks.

 

[The Accountant]

We'd be talking about 4 aircraft at most, it would be cost effective - and quicker - to import the airliner and Cobham WARP and undertake the integration and testing work at Kamra. The PAF's F-16s can refuel via boom, but for hose-and-drogue, it can (technically) be done using the Block-52's CFT and the external/wing-based fuel tanks on the others.


Not sure if the restrictions - if any - are decisive. There are many civilian airliners and jets that have been converted for military purposes, be it IFR, ISR, EW/ECM/ESM and MPA.

It's not just refueling for strike. The JF-17 is a small aircraft, by having IFR available some units can undertake longer sorties and/or carry more weapons and fewer (or no) fuel tanks.

But what about installing development of just a refueling system and using the existing refueler for the same purpose ... Developing a refueling system cannot be much costly, however, it can or cannot be technically difficult of which I am not sure about ...

 

[Incog_nito]

The only real need on the logistics front is for a boom-capable tanker to operate with the F-16s. Seeing the limited use of boom-type refueling, it is not surprising that options on this front are severely limited.

The only ones making boom probes are Boeing, Airbus DS and IAI. Unfortunately, Boeing and Airbus DS are focused on securing sales for their flagship platforms - i.e. KC-46 and A330 MRTT - and probably won't sell the boom-probe as a stand-alone product for a bespoke solution. IAI would do it, but Pakistan can't be a direct customer.

On the other hand, there is the option of making a bespoke/custom hose-and-drogue refueling aircraft.

I know the PAF has the IL-78, but I doubt the IL-78 can best a commercial airliner in fuel efficiency. For the task of air-to-air refueling, you want the tanker to preserve as much fuel as possible. The PAF has the theoretical option of looking at mothballed or used airliners and configuring them with Cobham Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARP).

I think the best option would be A330 MRTT and about 4-5 of them. PAF is moving towards JF-17s and J-XX so they all use probe based refueling system. But then we would need A330 as a probe refueler.

 

[Captain77W]

The KC46 also looks promising in any case PIA pilots will be able to fly both as they share a common cockpit with the A320 and 777

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But what about installing development of just a refueling system and using the existing refueler for the same purpose ... Developing a refueling system cannot be much costly, however, it can or cannot be technically difficult of which I am not sure about ...

There are 4 or 5 companies in the entire world that produce air-to-air refueling transfer systems. It may not be that complex, but it seems the vast majority of countries would prefer buying off-the-shelf. It could be cost. It could be complexity in terms of being able to provide fuel-transfer at a quick rate and with minimal risk of leakage or danger.

 

[khanasifm]

Kc-46 has been delayed for how many years now and delayed further due to technical and other issues ???


Also is paf looking to pick up additional used c130s ???

 

[fatman17]

Kc-46 has been delayed for how many years now and delayed further due to technical and other issues ???


Also is paf looking to pick up additional used c130s ???

I doubt it