Pakistan Air Force Transport

[Haris Ali2140]

We always seem to have an obsession with having a big transport fleet when we really do not need it. Pakistan now has excellent rail and road links. Apart from base resupply, supporting foreign exercises and patratroop training I really do not see why we need so many new transport planes. Current fleet of 16 C-130s and 4 CN-235s seem more then enough.

Pakistan has no global comitments nor is it like India where much of the country cannot be reach by road or rail.

You will see small countries with excellent transport links and big military budgets do not invest much in these. Look at say Israel, Italy or Tawain. They all operate around 20 decent sized transport planes too. Granted I guess we have a big population and for humanitarian disaster we need planes but the current fleet seems enough.

If we have bases abroad or Army expanded airborne forces massively then it would make a case for more modern planes

Pakistan isn't that small. You need tranport planes for fast travel. Railway tracks and roads at stretegic places will be blown first in a full war.

 

[TOPGUN]

We always seem to have an obsession with having a big transport fleet when we really do not need it. Pakistan now has excellent rail and road links. Apart from base resupply, supporting foreign exercises and patratroop training I really do not see why we need so many new transport planes. Current fleet of 16 C-130s and 4 CN-235s seem more then enough.

Pakistan has no global comitments nor is it like India where much of the country cannot be reach by road or rail.

You will see small countries with excellent transport links and big military budgets do not invest much in these. Look at say Israel, Italy or Tawain. They all operate around 20 decent sized transport planes too. Granted I guess we have a big population and for humanitarian disaster we need planes but the current fleet seems enough.

If we have bases abroad or Army expanded airborne forces massively then it would make a case for more modern planes

Agreed to some degree but its got nothing to do with what I asked the other member, also Pakistan isn't such a small country as many of you think compare to all other countries in the world.

 

[Yasser76]

Pakistan isn't that small. You need tranport planes for fast travel. Railway tracks and roads at stretegic places will be blown first in a full war.

Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours

Agreed to some degree but its got nothing to do with what I asked the other member, also Pakistan isn't such a small country as many of you think compare to all other countries in the world.

It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan

 

[TOPGUN]

Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours



It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan

I have to disagree you are not getting the point in any case we all have our opinions and by the way Pakistan is bigger then Afghanistan !!

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Airstrips will also be destroyed. In terms of say a Lahore to 'Pindi is around 3-4 hours drive, maybe 5 hours in army trucks. That is fast. Probably faster then driving to Nur Khan, loading a C-130, flying to Lahore and unloading. As I said, relatively Pakistan is relatively small. It's all relative in war. Indian units take days to move across India, literally days. We will take hours



It is relatively small and you can easily move north to south very quickly. I have done it by road and rail myself. Same cannot be said of India, Iran and Afghanistan

Hence there is a reason C130s and 17s can takeoff from unpaved runways.

Loading times are same for planes. Depends upon how ready you are. You can go with speed of 80 kph or with 600 kph.

 

[Yasser76]

I have to disagree you are not getting the point in any case we all have our opinions and by the way Pakistan is bigger then Afghanistan !!

OK, you totally missed my point, it's not just size but relative connectivity. Never mind

 

[Tipu7]

Why would you say so ? what is your claim behind your comment ?

Multiple.
First, the fleet is very old. Almost entire cargo fleet of Transport aircrafts is outdated, lack state of art communication & survival suite, suffer from frequent engine issues and are highly maintenance demanding.

Second, fleet size is very limited. Literally only 16 C130 & 4 IL78. That's it! This limit was significantly felt during crisis with India when dispersion of assets & personals became a straining task. There is need of 16 more airframes of varying capacity.

Third, the fleet is sluggish. Unlike our fighter fleet, transport fleet has poor sortie rate and turn around time. The reliance on slow moving turboprop aircrafts as primary transport craft has compromised the airborne strategic mobility. IL78 got issues of their own. PAF hates that fuel thirsty noisy aircraft which it bought only as a stop gap measure but is forced to keep using it due to Absense of replacement Feasibility.

 

[Trailer23]

I guess PAF should start discussing with. USA and EU on potential sale of:
4 to 5 A330 MRT
10 to 12 A-400M
10 to 12 C-130J

I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.

Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.

KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.

As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.

Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.

 

[Incog_nito]

I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.

Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.

KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.

As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.

Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.

I guess Y-20 is not yet matured and lies in the heavy-lift category of transport.

We can look towards 10 Y-20 with addition to what I have suggested above.

15 to 20 C130 J new and used would be great addition no need A400 yes may have few IL76 too

IL-76 will not be with us for long and we can replace it with some additional Y-20s.

 

[Trailer23]

26th November, 2018
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/197920/.html

21st July, 2019
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1158603.shtml

 

[Tank131]

I guess Y-20 is not yet matured and lies in the heavy-lift category of transport.

We can look towards 10 Y-20 with addition to what I have suggested above.


IL-76 will not be with us for long and we can replace it with some additional Y-20s.

I'd say we stay away from the airbus Family altogether. They've been compromised by you know who.

Down the line parts can become an issue. And last thing you want is someone else dictating the French.

KC-10's & 135's are just as outdated as the IL-76. But a case could be made for the KC-46 (Pegasus) based on the B767.

As far as Transport goes, with the exception of the C-130J, most Members have sidelined the Leonardo/Aliena C-27J (Spartan) based on its size.

Obviously, if we were to look towards our neighbor - the Y-20 would be exceptional, and if it had the Air-to-Air capability, that'd solves both Tanker & Transport altogether. IF.

For a pakistan, 10 strategic lift aircraft like Y-20 is a bit excessive and expensive. As for the C-21J it was mentioned earlier in this thread and is the perfect backbone of the fleet of transporter. It is situated exactly between C-295 and C-130 in terms of capabilities, costs around the price of C-295 and is from a trusted source (Italy).i would like to see 25 C-21J and 20 C-130 (including those that PAF already have) and 5 Y-20 in PAF. That is a solid transport fleet.

 

[python-000]

another option for PAF transport craft if possible...

 

[nomi007]

another option for PAF transport craft if possible...

who will pay?

 

[mshan44]

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

When I suggested this or the KC390. Typical naysayers were squirming as usual......I also brought up C27J in this thread. As well as the Y20 granted it was not mature at the time.
I'm Awesome.

But the point is Typical Pakistani PDFers say ohh we don't have requirement, ohhh the economies of scale. Bro what u gonna do if u need to move and infantry division from Kashmir to Sindh/Balochistan when the enemy advance only allows 1.5-2 hours, for example?
7-800,000 active duty troops, other military machines such as jeeps, tanks, helo depending on just 16 1965 grandpa C130s and a few C295s hardly very practical.
PakMil logistics need at least:

8-12 A400M(if they really think turboprops save on fuel) or Y20/C17 class of aircraft.

New MRTTs

New C130s to replace old ones and also to add numbers OR New/slightly used KC390s/Kawasaki C2 class to supplement or take on role of C130

C27J/C295 to support C130/KC390 fleet(this rung in the ladder is optional, I believe)

Some new heavy lift helos:
CH53s
CH47
Mi26
Tilt rotors(check out my thread on it)
AW609
Ospreys

OR MAKE OUR OWN.

another option for PAF transport craft if possible...

P.S
Ideally I'd have some C17s, then KC390s/C2s and then optional C27J

Because on paper KC390/C2 is supposed to be better than C130. We'll see when the platform reaches further maturity.

Boeing/Embraer/Kawasaki throw tantrums then Antonov has designs similar to the KC390 on offer. Turks have JVs with Ukrainians. A Turk design that came to light recently.

So there are options. If PAF decides to take off it's "sab acha hai" glasses.