Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[mingle]

So my nephew ruined a really classy Block 52+ D model of PAF. Looks like the missing AMRAAMs will be found in India.

Now accepting condolences.

View attachment 602280 View attachment 602281 View attachment 602282

Any news about more of these birds along V upgrades???

 

[Raider 21]

If Turkey also gets SU-35 from Russia, I don’t see PAF NOT pursuing SU-35 in near future, like after 3 years or something.

China already operates SU-35, India has been trying to distance itself from russia lately, in many tenders. Russia and Pakistan relations are on a journey like never before, still a long way to go, but we are headed on a track which is in good terms with Russia.

Especially if Russia invests in Pakistan and makes use of it, it would like to do MORE with Pakistan.

Although, the contradicting scenario is, india re-opts for T-50, which has a potential to
Happen in cases :

• PAF gets some squadrons of FC-31 (v3 is expected to fly soon and is said to be better than F-35 in some aspects and overall far better than it’s earlier variants)
• PAF gets some Chinese flankers or V upgrades for the whole fleet (V upgrades for whole fleet will definitely leave india panicked no matter what they buy)
• AMCA doesn’t go as they expected it to happen.
• Russia improvises T-50 to match the standards and succeeds in their engine project

All these points are highlighting about in which cases india might opt for T-50s.

We at the moment can’t rule out the possibility of India acquiring F-35 if uncle sam have some desperate interests with india. Although, S-400 and F-35 together would be a rare case but india has been a rare case in many other situations as well be it iranian oil.

So back to SU-35, SU-35 would be the best ever choice we make before AZM. AZM is just on papers at the moment. Although wind tunnel testing will, is or may be done at the moment (refer to MoDP report about Wind Tunnel plans for PAC) but AZM is very far and that would be 2030-32 and God knows where world would be at that time, peace or war or destroyed.

It is inevitable that PAF will/Should get a deep strike fighter for PAF or PN in medium term, right when Block 3 production is nearing its current limit. We could possibly see our economy even booming or getting better, giving us some edge to get these toys.


BUT, even though just my wish or call it anything, SU-35 with J-20 radar and Chinese AAMs, nothing would be better in 4++ class than this SU-35P. Russia wouldn’t seem to allow this at the moment, but like said, we should persuade them, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN THIS WORLD EXCEPT TIME TRAVEL AND KEEPING A WIFE HAPPY FOREVER.

@Windjammer @Mangus Ortus Novem @HRK @aliyusuf @Hodor

Kuch naya karne ko nai hai isliye socha wapas wohi batein shuro karden, bohat din se bekar topics chalrahe hain...

If TuAF pursue the Su-35 then a lot of their annual flight time amongst fighter guys will reduce drastically. The Russian jets require a ton of maintenance to maintain NATO standard level of annual flight time for fighter pilots.

 

[aliyusuf]

I emphasized on SU-35 simply due to its design and RCS unlike J-16, J-15B but with systems and weapons if China.

Russia may not be too thrilled with the option of selling it's Su-35s with Chinese goodies. That would mean it's own munitions won't get sold.

The J-16 and J-15B already have a much reduced RCS than the original Su-27 from which all subsequent Flankers have originated. But still not on the same league as the Su-35 in regards to RCS. But Su-35s radar is a PESA and is not an LPI radar like the AESA radars of it's Chinese cousins (i.e. J-16 and J-15B). So when the Su-35 opens up with it's PESA it's low RCS is offset by the broadcasting electromagnetic beacon sent out by it's Irbis-E PESA radar. Here is where it will be at a disadvantage. Furthermore, Chinese PL-15 and PL-XX both have AESA seekers ... the Su-35's RWRs will have tough time picking them up until too late when these missiles go pitbull. But that is how I see it and I am certainly no expert.

 

[StormBreaker]

So my nephew ruined a really classy Block 52+ D model of PAF. Looks like the missing AMRAAMs will be found in India.

Now accepting condolences.

View attachment 602280 View attachment 602281 View attachment 602282

Where to get this block d model?

 

[airomerix]

Where to get this block d model?

All 2 star and above got a set when a shipment came in. I'm not sure from where but i can check. Its an AHQ thing. Whenever something like this comes along everyone in the upper brass gets a sample.

And no i'm not a two star.

Any news about more of these birds along V upgrades???

No update.

 

[LKJ86]

I emphasized on SU-35 simply due to its design and RCS unlike J-16, J-15B but with systems and weapons if China.

Why do you think Su-35 has a much reduced RCS?

 

[StormBreaker]

Why do you think Su-35 has a much reduced RCS?

Evidently because of the lack of canards and russian claims.

Furthermore, they might have used more composites on airframe and taken measures on intakes to reduce direct engine heat signatures

 

[LKJ86]

russian claims

Can you provide the sources?

taken measures on intakes to reduce direct engine heat signatures

Intakes ~ direct engine heat signatures ???
Are you seriously?

 

[StormBreaker]

Evidently because of the lack of canards and russian claims.

Furthermore, they might have used more composites on airframe and taken measures on intakes to reduce direct engine heat signatures

Russian stealth researchers have developed materials and techniques that can reduce the head-on radar cross-section (RCS) of a Sukhoi Su-35 fighter by an order of magnitude, halving the range at which hostile radars can detect it. The research group - working with Sukhoi, but based at the Institute for Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE) at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow - has performed more than 100 hours of testing on a reduced-RCS Su-35 and has also experimented with the use of plasmas - ionized gases - to reduce RCS.

"A problem of huge size" is how the researchers describe the Su-35 inlet, with a straight duct that provides direct visibility to the entire face of the engine compressor. The basic solution has been to apply ferro-magnetic radar absorbent material (RAM) to the compressor face and to the inlet duct walls, but this involves challenges. The researchers note: the material cannot be allowed to constrict airflow or impede the operation of anti-icing systems and must withstand high-speed airflows and temperatures up to 200°C. The ITAE team has developed and tested coating materials that meet these standards. A layer of RAM between 0.7mm and 1.4mm thick is applied to the ducts and a 0.5mm coating is applied to the front stages of the low-pressure compressor, using a robotic spray system. The result is a 10-15dB reduction in the RCS contribution from the inlets.

The modified Su-35 also has a treated cockpit canopy which reflects radar waves, concealing the high RCS contribution from metal components in the cockpit. ITAE has developed a plasma-deposition process to deposit alternating layers of metallic and polymer materials, creating a coating that blocks radio-frequency waves, is resistant to cracking and crazing and does not trap solar heat in the cockpit. The plasma-coating process is then carried out robotically in a 22 m3 vacuum chamber.

ITAE and its partners have also developed plasma-type technology for applying ceramic coatings to the exhaust and afterburner. The conference video also showed the use of hand-held sprays to apply RAM to R-27 air-to-air missiles.

https://www.fighter-planes.com/stealth2.htm

 

[araz]

If TuAF pursue the Su-35 then a lot of their annual flight time amongst fighter guys will reduce drastically. The Russian jets require a ton of maintenance to maintain NATO standard level of annual flight time for fighter pilots.

Agreed. TUAF will most likely not persue SU 35s but instead concentrate on their 5th generation venture. They have enough 16s and infrastructure to maintain them so it is not likely that they are desperate for anything at the moment. The most intriguing prospect for me is the possibility of Pak Turk collaboration on an advanced NGF version of JFT ideally with EJ200 uprated engines for Turkey( Pak might want to continue with the RD series having made its inveatment for maintenance). Now that is a thought worth drooling on.
A

 

[StormBreaker]

Agreed. TUAF will most likely not persue SU 35s but instead concentrate on their 5th generation venture. They have enough 16s and infrastructure to maintain them so it is not likely that they are desperate for anything at the moment. The most intriguing prospect for me is the possibility of Pak Turk collaboration on an advanced NGF version of JFT ideally with EJ200 uprated engines for Turkey( Pak might want to continue with the RD series having made its inveatment for maintenance). Now that is a thought worth drooling on.
A

Wouldn’t we need Chinese permission to seek turkey as a partner for another Joint Pak-Turk Block ? Will China even allow such ?

I can only see that happening IF we just use the airframe and all systems are NON-Chinese, in easy words, When özgur upgrade avionics are ready. These turkish ozgur systems can be used to produce a Turkish Thunder alongside Pak. We on the other hand can later on integrate our current inventory of Weapons to our Turk Block Thunders without getting turks involved with Chinese source codes...

If Turkey doesn’t go for other fighters, chances are higher that they might beef up their current numbers by adding light but lethal Fighters like Thunder. Another reason they would do that would be to portray Our level of cooperation and Friendship just like Mushak’s case, Ada corvettes or Agosta upgrades.

If PAF opts for Hurjet, chances would be higher than ever that Turkey might actually procure some thunders.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Wouldn’t we need Chinese permission to seek turkey as a partner for another Joint Pak-Turk Block ? Will China even allow such ?

I can only see that happening IF we just use the airframe and all systems are NON-Chinese, in easy words, When özgur upgrade avionics are ready. These turkish ozgur systems can be used to produce a Turkish Thunder alongside Pak. We on the other hand can later on integrate our current inventory of Weapons to our Turk Block Thunders without getting turks involved with Chinese source codes...

If Turkey doesn’t go for other fighters, chances are higher that they might beef up their current numbers by adding light but lethal Fighters like Thunder. Another reason they would do that would be to portray Our level of cooperation and Friendship just like Mushak’s case, Ada corvettes or Agosta upgrades.

If PAF opts for Hurjet, chances would be higher than ever that Turkey might actually procure some thunders.

As far as Turkey is concerned, the Hurjet is an alternative to the JF-17. Sure, it's on the lighter side, but its engine class is about as good as any other lightweight fighter.

Agreed. TUAF will most likely not persue SU 35s but instead concentrate on their 5th generation venture. They have enough 16s and infrastructure to maintain them so it is not likely that they are desperate for anything at the moment. The most intriguing prospect for me is the possibility of Pak Turk collaboration on an advanced NGF version of JFT ideally with EJ200 uprated engines for Turkey( Pak might want to continue with the RD series having made its inveatment for maintenance). Now that is a thought worth drooling on.
A

Forget JF-17 Block-IV, if you really want to day dream, imagine a scenario where the PAF calls it a day on the JF-17 after the Block-III, and then switches to the Hurjet as its future low-cost platform (to work with the FGFA). In truth, the Hurjet is the Westernized lightweight fighter the PAF dreamed of in the late 1980s.

 

[StormBreaker]

As far as Turkey is concerned, the Hurjet is an alternative to the JF-17. Sure, it's on the lighter side, but its engine class is about as good as any other lightweight fighter.

Trainer is always a trainer buddy, it could never fulfill multiroles to the cap of thunders due to wing loading, HPs and most importantly range and space for advanced systems such as those we saw incorporated on 3000

As far as Turkey is concerned, the Hurjet is an alternative to the JF-17. Sure, it's on the lighter side, but its engine class is about as good as any other lightweight fighter.


Forget JF-17 Block-IV, if you really want to day dream, imagine a scenario where the PAF calls it a day on the JF-17 after the Block-III, and then switches to the Hurjet as its future low-cost platform (to work with the FGFA). In truth, the Hurjet is the Westernized lightweight fighter the PAF dreamed of in the late 1980s.

It would be just a paisa phenk buddy.

This budget can be better used on speeding up AZM, or some other heavy platforms in small numbers.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Trainer is always a trainer buddy, it could never fulfill multiroles to the cap of thunders due to wing loading, HPs and most importantly range and space for advanced systems such as those we saw incorporated on 3000

The baseline Hurjet will use an engine as powerful as (and more efficient than) the RD-93. It will have a payload of 3,000 kg and max altitude of 45,000 ft. There's nothing (besides time and money) stopping the Turks from working the design up even further to come up with a Gripen/Tejas-class fighter (it's mostly there already).

As for 'advanced systems,' the Turks will load the Hurjet with their own AESA radar, integrated EW/ECM suite, and HMD/S (from TF-X), plus their own bevy of indigenous AAMs, SOWs, AShM, PGBs, LGB, EW pod, etc. And never mind the other attributes, e.g., relaxed stability, heavier use of composite materials, etc.

 

[LKJ86]

The baseline Hurjet will use an engine as powerful as (and more efficient than) the RD-93. It will have a payload of 3,000 kg and max altitude of 45,000 ft. There's nothing (besides time and money) stopping the Turks from working the design up even further to come up with a Gripen/Tejas-class fighter (it's mostly there already).

As for 'advanced systems,' the Turks will load the Hurjet with their own AESA radar, integrated EW/ECM suite, and HMD/S (from TF-X), plus their own bevy of indigenous AAMs, SOWs, AShM, PGBs, LGB, EW pod, etc. And never mind the other attributes, e.g., relaxed stability, heavier use of composite materials, etc.

When will Hurjet be ready?