Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Ultima Thule]

F35 has good sensors but it's not a good dog fighter best is still F15 X can knock anything out there.

Dog fighting era is almost over that's why all 5th and upcoming 6th gen jets will have more BVR, short ranged air to air missiles are for last resort @mingle

 

[mingle]

Dog fighting era is almost over that's why all 5th and upcoming 6th gen jets will have more BVR, short ranged air to air missiles are for last resort @mingle

It will never be that's why we still have guns in planes.

 

[Ultima Thule]

These are mere assumptions that F-35 is not a good dogfighter. These assumptions are brain child of that community who wanted to kill F-35 program in favour of more F-16's and F-15's in the US. Since F-35 without a doubt has sucked alot of money out of US tax payer.

The idea of F-35 being a less capable dogfighter was born when inexperienced pilots on F-35 went against veteran F-16/F-15 pilots. Obviously F-35 pilots were destined to lose that way. But now if you ask those guys at Luke AFB. F-35s eat everyone alive. F-16's and F-15s cant even see the F-35 until its too late.

The aircraft is a marvel. Its too good.

world best electronically advance jet without doubt @airomerix

It will never be that's why we still have guns in planes.

only in F-35A there is fixed gun but other version of F-35 have optional gun pod and remember sir F-35 is a world best electronically advance jet and its electronic counter measure will jam enemy radars (ground, Air) and weapons ( SAMs,AAM) so i think gun is useless for F-35 @mingle

 

[Thorough Pro]

I agree and see a big (full blown) war with India coming in next 5 years. we need at least 2/3 full squadrons of J10C or better ASAP. The day India gets their rafael, their itch will suddenly increase significantly and we need a wire brush to satisfy that itch for ever.

Hi,

Thanks for the tag---. Weapons and war---it is all about the timing---. What do you have---when would you need it---what is the enemy planning right now---.

Based on that---Paf is woefully low on numbers as of now for the frontline aircraft---.

The enemy is not weak---it just made a tactical retreat---. Admitted that it looks terrible in show and on paper the way it was done---.

The attack in kashmir was ill-planned and its execution terrible by the Iaf---. Paf rode the wave of enemy un-certainty and smashed them---.

But they did not run away because they were weak---. That retreat was tactical---. Any further losses in air or on ground would result badly on the elections---so the enemy decided what it did---swallowed its pride and calmed down with its tail between its legs---.

But that does not mean it ended---. The election results will reflect on the future---. If Modi wins---war is imminent---no ifs and buts---.

So---how should pakistan cope now---thios mentality of " brings nothing new to the table " falls in favor of the enemy---.

Napoleone----if he was alive---for sure to this day would have wanted his flank division to have moved 1 minute ahead of time and available to him at the crucial moment---.

An educated pakistani is absolutely illiterate in war planning strategy equipment utility & resource---.

They don't understand what 16-18 fighter aircraft bring to the military---.

16---18 aircraft comprises of a sqdrn of aircraft---a sqdrn of aircraft is like a division of army---a division of Jordanian F16's in pakistani air force lines created havoc in the indian air force plans---.

Because they suddenly showed up one day---just like that---.

So---be it the J10CE or the J16---both are extremely important aircraft for the Paf & Pakistan---.

J10CE is an easier integration than the J16's.

The problem with the Paf's mindset is that it wants to do tomorrow what needed to be done today---.

They should have a plan in place for the 1st enemy incursion---they did not---not ready for today---but ready to make plans for tomorrow---.

Kargil---did not get the chinese F7PG's till they got into combat with the enemy---yet they were available earlier---.

Did not get the M2k's earlier when available---waited too long and lost the deal---.

Did not get the F16's earlier---lost the opportunity to get the F16's later---.

So---the J10---the J16 or the JH7A's---Paf needs to get something now---.

 

[mingle]

world best electronically advance jet without doubt @airomerix


only in F-35A there is fixed gun but other version of F-35 have optional gun pod and remember sir F-35 is a world best electronically advance jet and its electronic counter measure will jam enemy radars (ground, Air) and weapons ( SAMs,AAM) so i think gun is useless for F-35 @mingle

In Vietnam they removed gun from F4 phantoms due to Aim 7 and sparrows no body can come close but they proved wrong again put the gun back. In war u never know what gonna happen so gun is as important as missiles r

 

[PurpleButcher]

The problem with the Paf's mindset is that it wants to do tomorrow what needed to be done today---.

Beautifully said!

 

[Ultima Thule]

In Vietnam they removed gun from F4 phantoms due to Aim 7 and sparrows no body can come close but they proved wrong again put the gun back. In war u never know what gonna happen so gun is as important as missiles r

BVR is more advance and reliable than Vietnam era, Vietnam era was early/mid part of development of BVR era @mingle

 

[mingle]

BVR is more advance and reliable than Vietnam era, Vietnam era was early/mid part of development of BVR era @mingle

Remember on those days sparrows were like AMRAAM today.

 

[TsAr]

The J10C is a medium weight multi role fighter equal to that of the Viper.
The J16 is a heavy weight, that does come in a dedicated wild weasel / growler type version as well.

Now a single engine a/c is much easier to maintain, and very economical for CAP's, but these capabilities are already being addressed by Viper & JFT.

If it comes down to which one PAF should buy, the clear choice should be the J16.

Everything that the J10 offers is available in the Blk52+ and is supplemented by JFT. What PAF needs now, is to address gaps / additional areas that need to be addressed, especially for maritime ops.

A dedicated squadron or two for the navy, considering it's long range, would do wonders.

Secondly, the J16's low flight capability is very close, if not better than that of the mirages. Being twin engine it's payload capacity is also greater. In a Growler like config, it would wreak havoc.

Just my 2cents
@Signalian & @MastanKhan can expand on this further.

Has Russia allowed China to export J-16 (as it's a variant of J11)? Secondly there are doubts that the power unit on J-16 i.e ws-10b still needs give tuning.

 

[Humble Analyst]

world best electronically advance jet without doubt @airomerix


only in F-35A there is fixed gun but other version of F-35 have optional gun pod and remember sir F-35 is a world best electronically advance jet and its electronic counter measure will jam enemy radars (ground, Air) and weapons ( SAMs,AAM) so i think gun is useless for F-35 @mingle

India Pak share borders so the gun will be needed as chances of within visual range cannot be ruled out. The thought that gun will not be needed is not a new idea. It emerged with F 4 phantom and F104 and came back in 70s
While electronic counter measures have come a long way so will the counter counter measures evolve. Someday the Stealth technology will not be as stealthy as it is today. The process will go on swinging from one side to other.
It is good to have faith and set a course but allow for needed course changes and be prepared.

 

[Ultima Thule]

India Pak share borders so the gun will be needed as chances of within visual range cannot be ruled out. The thought that gun will not be needed is not a new idea. It emerged with F 4 phantom and F104 and came back in 70s
While electronic counter measures have come a long way so will the counter counter measures evolve. Someday the Stealth technology will not be as stealthy as it is today. The process will go on swinging from one side to other.
It is good to have faith and set a course but allow for needed course changes and be prepared.

yes you're right but remember that in 60s/70s US military (USN/USAF) thinks that dog fight era will be over and future wars will be fought in BVR arena, especially USN had started the project of fleet defense fighter with subsonic jet with heavy load (6-8 BVR) @Humble Analyst

Remember on those days sparrows were like AMRAAM today.

yes you're right but remember that in 60s/70s US military (USN/USAF) thinks that dog fight era will be over and future wars will be fought in BVR arena, especially USN had started the project of fleet defense fighter with subsonic jet with heavy load (6-8 BVR) @mingle

 

[mingle]

yes you're right but remember that in 60s/70s US military (USN/USAF) thinks that dog fight era will be over and future wars will be fought in BVR arena, especially USN had started the project of fleet defense fighter with subsonic jet with heavy load (6-8 BVR) @Humble Analyst

yes you're right but remember that in 60s/70s US military (USN/USAF) thinks that dog fight era will be over and future wars will be fought in BVR arena, especially USN had started the project of fleet defense fighter with subsonic jet with heavy load (6-8 BVR) @mingle

Gun will remain as primary weapon for close combat no matter how advance technology is.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Gun will remain as primary weapon for close combat no matter how advance technology is.

No only for last resort after all BVR/SRAAM are expired, its true in past and remains in future @mingle

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Go back to feb 27th---the myht of the gun has been busted---.

No pilots worth his salt & common sense would stay in the dog fight range---. He would rather run away---.

@Khafee --- it would be absolutely stupid of any pilot---even the one who can get into a gun fight to get into a gun fight could also be the target of a BVR missiles---from another enemy aircraft---.

See---gun fight takes 110 % of the pilots attention---he is clueless about anything other than the target---he got target fixation---that is how he will get behind the enemy---he can't hear anything---he can't see anything other than the target and gun lock---which means that he has put the aircraft and his life in jeoardy against a BVR shot from an enemy aircraft 30-40 miles away---.

Even though missile warning launch would be screaming in his ears---he won't hear anything else other than looking for a target lock---.

You kids do not have a broader view of the combat---.

 

[Trailer23]

F-16's and F-15s cant even see the F-35 until its too late.

Coincidently, Pakistan won't see the F-35 until its too late.