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a simple rocket boaster and some more fuel in current babur can be done if you are going to use it for crusie missles!!

Then why haven't they done so? If they can then they should. CM barrage of FOBs and S400 positions of IAF will be the most effective way for PAF to protect the longevity of its forces and decrease attrition rates in a full tilt conflict.
 
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will be flying ducks with lack of escort which PAF doesnt has(just 176 4th gen fighters vs 500+ of IAF/IN)

aand hence investment in land based systems

Hi,

You are just talk---I have asked you to write a scenario---but you are clueless to write anything---because you know nothing---.

Read @Signalian 's---maybe you will learn something rather than making a fool of yourself over and over---.

Today at 6:03 AM#4963 here is another and then there is a post by @tank131
 
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This man had attitude problem when he was air marshal.
Well, we all have attitude problems...

Hi,

if you have a little time---share a scenario---or maybe just a little more detail in what you want to say---.
I read his post and couldn't make any sense out of it...a fifth grader can state his opinion clearer than him.
 
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Something which gets overlooked alot that I would like to bring to attention.

S400 detection range is roughly 400km (370km to be precise). It is a real threat but nothing is 100% effective and against a fighter that is severely less, which is why they can still be taken out by salvos of ranged or anti radiation weapons. And detection can be avoided by using terrain advantage.

Actual threat to aircraft from the S400 will be from it's 9M96/9M96E2 (max range 120km) and 9M96E (max range 40km) missiles which can engage maneuvering targets. The higher ranged missile are for fixed trajectory targets. Both these missiles by the time the aircraft is in it's range, the aircraft will also be able to fire it's standoff weapons or anti radiation missiles.

And then there is curvature of the Earth, one of many factors to limit long range missile range.
https://www.foi.se/report-search/pdf?fileName=D:\ReportSearch\Files\e1539f62-de49-421b-93ad-f4e960e0eacc.pdf

"One long-range weapon that has attracted considerable attention in Sweden is Russia’s S-400 SAM system. Its nominal range of 400 km means that the S-400 could theoretically reach Swedish territory. However, the actual range of a SAM is limited by a number of factors. An obvious factor is the curvature of the earth. Figure 11.1 shows that at a distance of 400 km, an aircraft needs to be at an altitude of 12 000 metres to be visible from the ground. Conversely, anobserver needs to be at an altitude of 12 000 meters to be able to detect an object on the ground from this distance. Another limiting factor is the flight time of the SAM. It takes about ten minutes for a SAM to travel 400 km, which is enough time for a fighter aircraft to fly more than 100 km in any direction. Consequently, a longrange SAM would need to receive real-time updates of the target’s position and velocity in order to adjust its trajectory. This would require airborne or surface-based sensors to track the target and transmit data to the missile via a data link. All of this requires line of sight between the target and the sensors, as well as between the data-link transmitters and the missile. Terrain masking poses an obvious challenge for detecting and tracking targets at low altitude. Furthermore, the missile has a limited supply of velocity, which would be quickly drained as the target manoeuvres. All of this means that while a long-range SAM system such as the S-400 would certainly be a threat at a very long range to an airliner cruising at 36 000 feet, the actual effective range against a fighter at low altitude could well be under 20 km, depending on the terrain. Figure 1. Required altitude for visibility of objects at a distance. Hence, long-range SAMs constitute only a limited and to some extent manageable threat to fighter aircraft. For a SAM system to reach its full potential, it needs to be an integrated part of a network of sensors, command and control functions, and weapons. To be effective at long range, airborne sensors are required. Thus, the threat posed by a long-range SAM system in Kaliningrad or on Gotland, for example, cannot be described as a circle on the map with the nominal range as the radius. An aircraft taking off from an airbase in Sweden could not be shot down by SAMs based on the other side of the Baltic shortly after it left the runway"View attachment 478084

PAF routinely practices 500(152m)-1000ft (304m) low altitude flight and from interviews of pilots I gather the routine is 500ft.

So remaining undetected and taking out the S400 threat is not a impossibility, it will be difficult and risky but then again it's what our fly boys train day and night for.

And then there are terrain hugging cruise missiles in Pakistan's inventory for a saturated attack.

So things are not grim for PAF.

There are some significant errors here:

https://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/s-400.htm

The Fakel Machine Building Design Bureau has developed two new missiles for Triumf.

  • The "big" missile [designation otherwise unknown] has a range of up to 400 km and will be able to engage "over- the-horizon [OTH]" targets using a new seeker head developed by Almaz Central Design Bureau. This seeker can operate in both a semiactive and active mode, with the seeker switched to a search mode on ground command and homing on targets independently. Targets for this missile include airborne early warning and control aircraft as well as jammers.
  • The 9M96 missile is designed to destroy aircraft and air- delivered weapons at ranges in excess of 120 km. The missile is small-- considerably lighter than the ZUR 48N6Ye used in the S-300PMU1 systems and the Favorit. The missile is equipped with an active homing head and has an estimated single shot kill probability of 0.9 for manned aircraft and 0.8 for unmanned maneuvering aircraft. a gas-dynamic control system enables the 9M96 missile to maneuver at altitudes of up to 35 km at forces of over 20g, which permits engagment of non- strategic ballistic missiles. A mockup of the missile was set up at an Athens arms exhibition in October 1998. One 9M96 modification will become the basic long-range weapon of Air Force combat aircraft, and may become the standardized missile for air defense SAM systems, ship-launched air defense missile systems, and fighter aircraft.

So basically, the larger missile does not need any line of sight communication with the controller.

That said, the article is correct in saying that S-400 can be avoided at 400 km by fighter jets. But again it is providing only partial information. S-400 will not exist in a vacuum. It will be part of a multi-layered air defence that will cover all approaches and ranges.

In war, unpredictability is everything. If you can limit the approach of the enemy, you have already put him at a significant disadvantage. And S-400 will create that disadvantage.

Then, there are significant presumptions that you make. Yes, terrain can be used for evasion, but will terrain be available for evasion? For example, in the plains of Punjab? And will the enemy be completely incognizant of the terrain advantage you want to use?

Yes, saturation attacks can overcome any system, but will the enemy sit around letting you perform saturation attacks on him? What happens when 1000 Brahmos missiles are launched at Pakistani air defences and FOBs, given that we have very little strategic depth?

You are trivializing a complex situation, and you should disassociate yourself from the likes of MastanKhan who is literally acting like cheering squad, jumping on anything that seems to support his fantasies.
 
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Indo pak war will be blood bath for both airforces, this will be a war in which bothsides are entrenched against each other since their creation in 1947, know that in world war 1 artillery acquired the most amount of kills when because it was fired on fixed locations, fast forward to the 21st century with cruise missiles cluster bombs guided bombs ballistic missiles , against immovable airbases.
The airforce which can reposition and construct airbases on a day's notice in the middle of nowhere will be the triumphant one
 
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Hi,

You are just talk---I have asked you to write a scenario---but you are clueless to write anything---because you know nothing---.

Read @Signalian 's---maybe you will learn something rather than making a fool of yourself over and over---.

Today at 6:03 AM#4963 here is another and then there is a post by @tank131
i come here to make my self a fool and have some fun....
 
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i come here to make my self a fool and have some fun....


Hi,

Nothing to be proud of---a person would be rather ashamed and learn to better themselves---.

But how pathetic is it that posters are trying their best to raise the level of discussion on the board---and you are trying your best to bring it down---.

This man had attitude problem when he was air marshal.

Hi,

Off course he had an attitude problem---. He got a life time hard on by taking on the US nuclear aircraft carrier---.
 
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He got a life time hard on by taking on the US nuclear aircraft carrier---.


Wouldn't you???? Ultimate sport hunting... no bigger prize exists on earth....



I am reading some of scenarios and that not in discussion above among honorable members....

I want to say one thing ..


For me there is only one scenario in next war....
Playing on your strength.... and manipulating enemy deficits....

Pak response to war (preemptively or reacting) shud be a barrage of cruise missiles (in hundreds) tipped with tactical nuclear devices (India currently lacks tactical nukes and cruise missiles that can deliver them)... on all air bases... and all land based nuclear sites.... to take them out of equation straight away...

If India retaliates with strategic nukes and ballistic missiles..(only choices they have). they will have to face complete MAD scenario....


There will be no war between 2 nuclear states which is non nuclear... or remain so...
So to me all conventional scenarios are obsolete and waste of time....


Now if you ask me how India shud fight. A war.... I can also give you a scenario.... but that's not my side ... so not my duty
 
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Well, we all have attitude problems...


I read his post and couldn't make any sense out of it...a fifth grader can state his opinion clearer than him.
No he had extreme attitude problem which was not good for service and especially when u had all administration of paf under ur command .
I never saw him shaking hand or even asking "how are u ?" From airmen and jco's .
Thank God CAS didn't recommended extension for him.

Hi,

Nothing to be proud of---a person would be rather ashamed and learn to better themselves---.

But how pathetic is it that posters are trying their best to raise the level of discussion on the board---and you are trying your best to bring it down---.



Hi,

Off course he had an attitude problem---. He got a life time hard on by taking on the US nuclear aircraft carrier---.
No actually he was a nice person till he was Air Commodore but when he became AVM his personality was completely changed. Only allah knows what happened inside his heart.
 
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Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
IMG_20180603_172951.jpeg
IMG_20180603_172956.jpeg
 
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Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
View attachment 478283View attachment 478284
Why now specially when the JFT B is available. Can the pilots not train on it?
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F 16 Fighting Falcons in Pakistan Air Force have completed the landmark of 100,000 successful Flight hours! F16s in Pakistan are operational from 3.5 decade and so far only 9 crashes have occurred making one of successful safety record in Aviation History.

Already posted by Fatman17 and rebutted by Windjammer. Apparently we completed 100k hrs on 16s much earlier.
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Why now specially when the JFT B is available. Can the pilots not train on it?
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Already posted by Fatman17 and rebutted by Windjammer. Apparently we completed 100k hrs on 16s much earlier.
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probably jf-17 isnt cost effective in that role
 
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probably jf-17 isnt cost effective in that role
Possibly but a new platform for training at this point does not make sense to me at least.
Are we envisaging a ground attack role for it as well.
A
 
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