Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[war&peace]

But those bakra dont get into our hands so we r at badluck for now.

bakre ka maa kab khait manay ga . aik din tu

The discussion has interesting detail. Should we continue on this thread, or shift it to some more dedicated thread? I can create one if none exists. Please advise.

As you feel better bro..

 

[razgriz19]

Basically, they are saying PAC has the full capability to take a proposed aerodynamic design, transform it into a structural design per international standards, and then manufacture it using aluminium alloys. In the process, they can also create the complete wiring for the aircraft. For the future, they will need to perform the following:

1. Define the threats we are facing, and the requirements which the next gen aircraft needs to fulfil in order to neutralize those threats.

2. A design phase where various aerodynamic designs are tested to find compliance with laid down requirements. Parameters such as climb rate, drag, life etc. will be calculated based on wind tunnel tests.

3. Engine needs to be finalized. A decade from now means TFX will be a reality.

4. Avionics, EW etc. need to be produced.

They haven't given us any insight into how much of these 4 capabilities we have. But given the whole approach of Aviation City, they will be looking to train local talent in these fields. There will be further acquisitions such as wind tunnels and engines. The production line for AESA radars will need to be set up.

Insha Allah, it looks achievable if we don't digress in the middle and keep the passion, funding, and efforts going.

That's not what they're saying. They said they can do mods and repair in house to manufacture's standards.
That means they can come up with approved repair designs and build them to OEM standard. It's big thing but not a huge thing.

 

[CriticalThought]

That's not what they're saying. They said they can do mods and repair in house to manufacture's standards.
That means they can come up with approved repair designs and build them to OEM standard. It's big thing but not a huge thing.

They have the relevant qualifications, training, and expertise. Admittedly, it takes a bit of 'reading between the lines', but I am confident in my assessment.

 

[Tps43]

bakre ka maa kab khait manay ga . aik din tu


As you feel better bro..

Aik din tou halaal hoga

 

[war&peace]

That's not what they're saying. They said they can do mods and repair in house to manufacture's standards.
That means they can come up with approved repair designs and build them to OEM standard. It's big thing but not a huge thing.

To be honest, these kinds of repairs are more difficult than making a new product and that's exactly what they were told by SAAB.

Aik din tou halaal hoga

ha na, inko halal tu karna ha

 

[HRK]

it does make you wonder about cost and cost-effectiveness: would obtaining another similar airframe and moving te AEWC systems have been cheaper (assuming possible)?

in reply to a question they gave estimation of ~5% cost as compare to alternative solution in the program

 

[Thorough Pro]

I think he did mention the cost to be around 5% of acquisition cost, even if you double it, I don't think you can get anything in that amount. In addition even if the planes were not recovered, the knowledge and experience gained would be worthwhile the effort.

Did. Interesting. Without doubting achievement, which can only be commended, it does make you wonder about cost and cost-effectiveness: would obtaining another similar airframe and moving te AEWC systems have been cheaper (assuming possible)?

 

[CriticalThought]

From

http://www.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2017_09_23_428335_3.shtml

Using google translate

In the case of Pakistan, historically, Pakistan has confronted India and the Soviet Air Force during the war between India and Pakistan and during the war in Afghanistan. In the 1950s and 1970s, the Pakistan Air Force was clearly dominant in the record, and even had a number of "one-day trump card" (one of the air combat in the shooting more than five aircraft), especially in the 1980s to obtain US F-16 fighter, the Pakistan Air Force has repeatedly played against the Soviet Air Force, and achieved good results. Under the American system trained pilots in the initiative, enthusiasm has some characteristics.

But despite this, after the Cold War, with the Indian and Pakistan strength of the shift, the Soviet Union after the disintegration of the United States to reduce the strength of Pakistan's military aid and other factors, the Pakistan Air Force a serious crisis. By the year 2000, the Pakistani Air Force, which was mainly equipped with Mirage-3, had to "protect the war" and let the Indian Air Force third-generation fighter plane implement air support in the border conflict between India and Pakistan. This is the biggest shame in the history of the Pakistan Air Force.

In fact, this is not just a performance disadvantage of the fighter, for the Pakistan Air Force, its early India and Pakistan war experience in organizing air battles in the three generations after the era has long been outdated, and its acceptance of the F-16 and the Soviet Union after the air confrontation It is only a border action, for its organization of large-scale air combat is also no help. It can be said that Pakistan was completely at that time did not have the ability to organize a formal air confrontation. On the contrary, the Indian Air Force not only vigorously procurement of advanced fighters, but also efforts to organize their own air operations organizational capacity, especially after entering the 21st century, India "Jianlou" access to Israel "Feierkang" air warning system, Pakistan is a " Asymmetric advantage ". A small number of outstanding pilots in the system against the overall disadvantage in the case, is not play a big role.

Since the new century, with the development of the Pakistan Air Force JF-17 fighter and the United States to thank the Pakistan war crimes in the contribution to the delivery of F-16C / D fighter aircraft to Pakistan and part of the F-16A fighter to upgrade, Pakistan Air Force strength has a new improvement.

For the well-known reasons, the Pakistan Air Force did not send its most advanced F-16C / D fighters to participate in CMB training, "falcon" when, perhaps the future Sino-Pakistani training can look forward to the new Aspect

Pakistan Air Force ZDK-03 early warning aircraft publicity photo, although the aircraft has long been the arrival, but how to use this early warning aircraft in the air combat to seize the advantage, the Pakistan Air Force is still a big problem

However, from the combat point of view, the Pakistan Air Force has entered the three generations of machine age, never had a large-scale air confrontation experience. Especially in the Indian Air Force has hundreds of advanced three generations of fighters under the premise of the Pakistan Air Force is not only in the number of weaknesses, strategic depth, the number of bases and other factors have been India over one. So the full start of the facelift JF-17, and gradually replace the old "Phantom" series fighter in the process, the Pakistan Air Force in urgent need of large-scale air campaign organization of new experience.

Can be said that the joint training of Pakistan and Pakistan, the Pakistan Air Force is a rare opportunity, because the United States will not give Pakistan a similar opportunity, and Pakistan's Middle East allies are now busy with the Air Force "war", there is no similar opportunity.

It is noteworthy that Pakistan, including ZDK-03 early warning aircraft to participate in the whole, for Pakistan, to learn how to use early warning aircraft for air command is a new issue, the CMB Air Force "with the same By "training, but also contains the early warning aircraft with the training, which in fact than the Pakistani Emmanuel Brigadier General J-11BS fighter is much more meaningful.

For Pakistan's future potential for future military conflict, the experience of the Pakistani Air Force in obtaining large-scale air battles that can not be obtained through other channels will be of great value.

This article is the exclusive article of the observer network, the content of the article is purely personal point of view, does not mean that the platform point of view, without authorization, may not be reproduced, or will be held accountable. Concerned about the observer network micro letter guanchacn, daily reading fun articles.

@Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @messiach @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @fatman17 @MastanKhan @Hodor

 

[fatman17]

From

http://www.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2017_09_23_428335_3.shtml

Using google translate



@Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @messiach @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @fatman17 @MastanKhan @Hodor

Can't make head or tail of this message

 

[fatman17]

Shaheen Ⅵ exercise: an offensive air to ground combat training was conducted at night. https://t.co/pGc58rDdmT https://t.co/HzlQhdQnkh

 

[CriticalThought]

Can't make head or tail of this message

I am just seeking comments on some of the assertions made by this Chinese reporter. The English is pretty bad translation from Google. Here are the main points I am seeking comment on:

1. Kargil is a shameful chapter of PAF history because they simply didn't have the aircraft to fly against Indians.
2. PAF is struggling to properly use ZDK-03 to its full potential.
3. PAF doesn't get too much practice in waging a large scale air war.

There are a few other barbs in between the lines there. I just want seniors to comment on these.

From my own knowledge, I can see, for example, that point 3 above cannot be true, given PAF regularly holds 'all of airforce' exercises, but still, independent comments would be welcome.

 

[fatman17]

Chinese & Pakistani air forces have demonstrated mutual trust by sitting in same fighter during joint drills named "Shaheen VI" @defencepk https://t.co/9jiuWHVAju

 

[fatman17]

I am just seeking comments on some of the assertions made by this Chinese reporter. The English is pretty bad translation from Google. Here are the main points I am seeking comment on:

1. Kargil is a shameful chapter of PAF history because they simply didn't have the aircraft to fly against Indians.
2. PAF is struggling to properly use ZDK-03 to its full potential.
3. PAF doesn't get too much practice in waging a large scale air war.

There are a few other barbs in between the lines there. I just want seniors to comment on these.

From my own knowledge, I can see, for example, that point 3 above cannot be true, given PAF regularly holds 'all of airforce' exercises, but still, independent comments would be welcome.

This guy is a moron. The Chinese are incredibly grateful to Pakistan for exposure to western DCAT.

 

[volatile]

Did. Interesting. Without doubting achievement, which can only be commended, it does make you wonder about cost and cost-effectiveness: would obtaining another similar airframe and moving te AEWC systems have been cheaper (assuming possible)?

Hi the real cost is designing of such system as it involves countless man hours and testing ,The job performed by PAF is an excellent work and some how it paves the way for new frontiers if taken in business terms ,I suggest that PAF use all these people and create a new company with private sector help , the cost of manufacturing or reproduce should always be cheap

 

[Penguin]

in reply to a question they gave estimation of ~5% cost as compare to alternative solution in the program

What alternative solution exactly? Used airframe, new airframe? And how long a lifespan for each versus repaired airframe? Again, I'm just wondering. %5 seems a bit low.

I think he did mention the cost to be around 5% of acquisition cost, even if you double it, I don't think you can get anything in that amount. In addition even if the planes were not recovered, the knowledge and experience gained would be worthwhile the effort.

Yeah but I wouldn't compare repair with cost of acquisition of a new Saab AEWC (which would include both airframe and AEWC system?). What I meant is the cost of getting a used similar airframe and then simply refitting that with the AEWC from the of damaged airframe. I'm aware there is value in doing the repair at home, irrespective of the replacement cost.

Hi the real cost is designing of such system as it involves countless man hours and testing ,The job performed by PAF is an excellent work and some how it paves the way for new frontiers if taken in business terms ,I suggest that PAF use all these people and create a new company with private sector help , the cost of manufacturing or reproduce should always be cheap

To be clear, the fact I am looking at cost does on no way detract from the egineering achievement of PAF personnel.