Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[mrrehan]

News Asia-Pacific:

1. Thailand to buy 12 JAS-39C/D Gripens and 2 Saab Eri-eye AEW systems for US 1.08 Billion. Gripens will replace the ageing F-5E/Fs of the RTAF. the Lockheed-Martin F-16 and the Sukhoi SU-30 were also short-listed before settling on the Gripen.

2. More details emerge on secretive chinese WZ-10 attack helicopter:
powered by two 1,531 shp P&WC PT6C-67C turbo shaft engines with Full Authority Digital Engine Control(FADEC). although some sources suggest that up to eight trials WZ-10s may now have been built, only three flying prototypes have been confirmed. (Z10-01, 02 and 03). maiden flights on April 23, 2003. in 2001 China asked Denal to purchase one helicopter (Rooivalk) suggesting it was to be used for reverse engineering and therefore the sales was blocked.weapons planned for the WZ-10 appear to be largely indigeneous like the new HJ-10 ATGM and older TY-90 SRAAMs.

3.India finalises plans for 40 more SU-30MKIs:
clearence has been given for the US $ 1.6 Billion deal to purchase 40 SU-30MKIs from Russia for the IAF. the additional 40 SU-30MKIs will give the IAF a fleet of 230 SU-30MKIs. the indian govt has asked HAL to complete the delivery of these aircraft by 2013-14 instead of the originally planned 2016-17

4. HAL to upgrade IN Sea-Kings:
clearence has been given to upgrade 18 of the IN Seaking 42/42B ASW helicopters under a $ 200 mill programme. IN originally purchased 43 Seakings but were grounded due to sanctions imposed after the 1998 nuclear tests.

5. Pakistan takes over Bell 412EPs:

already reported in land forces section.

I would like to know why Pakistan is not quite serious when it's come to Mirage aircraft's, we have few variants in use, we have done modification in aircraft, we have rebuild factory for Mirage very good knowledge of aircraft's engine. Israel on other hand have done the same moreover they have developed their own KAFIR from Mirage 5. However the platform is quite old now but still KAFIR has been heavily modified and perhaps undergoing dealing with Argentina for sale.

My question is that why not Pakistan have done so "I am not saying saying, Pakistan should make variant of Mirage". At least Pakistan could have gone towards Mirage 2000, Which is basically form from Mirage 5. A very nice platform that we a history of usage, maintaining facilities and trained peoples as well.

 

[fatman17]

I would like to know why Pakistan is not quite serious when it's come to Mirage aircraft's, we have few variants in use, we have done modification in aircraft, we have rebuild factory for Mirage very good knowledge of aircraft's engine. Israel on other hand have done the same moreover they have developed their own KAFIR from Mirage 5. However the platform is quite old now but still KAFIR has been heavily modified and perhaps undergoing dealing with Argentina for sale.

My question is that why not Pakistan have done so "I am not saying saying, Pakistan should make variant of Mirage". At least Pakistan could have gone towards Mirage 2000, Which is basically form from Mirage 5. A very nice platform that we a history of usage, maintaining facilities and trained peoples as well.

Mirage deal fell through due to corruption charges.

 

[mrrehan]

Mirage deal fell through due to corruption charges.

Sir as far as corruption is concern it's everywhere even in US in every force or govt. agency, but leaving a well established platform just because of few corrupt indivisual is not understandable. If you can kindly explain, Thanks.

 

[ziaulislam]

I would like to know why Pakistan is not quite serious when it's come to Mirage aircraft's, we have few variants in use, we have done modification in aircraft, we have rebuild factory for Mirage very good knowledge of aircraft's engine. Israel on other hand have done the same moreover they have developed their own KAFIR from Mirage 5. However the platform is quite old now but still KAFIR has been heavily modified and perhaps undergoing dealing with Argentina for sale.

My question is that why not Pakistan have done so "I am not saying saying, Pakistan should make variant of Mirage". At least Pakistan could have gone towards Mirage 2000, Which is basically form from Mirage 5. A very nice platform that we a history of usage, maintaining facilities and trained peoples as well.

that would have been a disaster too, why
1. first india opted for mirage even before we got f-16
so india would have always been the 1st customer
2. it would have blocked further upgrades as it block thunder upgrades, as french are money makers not honest

 

[mrrehan]

that would have been a disaster too, why
1. first india opted for mirage even before we got f-16
so india would have always been the 1st customer
2. it would have blocked further upgrades as it block thunder upgrades, as french are money makers not honest

However PAF was the first user. If the french is like that then they can block India for a good deal from else where too.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sir as far as corruption is concern it's everywhere even in US in every force or govt. agency, but leaving a well established platform just because of few corrupt indivisual is not understandable. If you can kindly explain, Thanks.

Corruption can affect more than just bank accounts. The final price was much higher than what was coming in the package. The French already put a high price thanks to the M2K's relative popularity and the fact that the PAF didn't have any other Western fighter option, but the corruption added another price layer. IMO the best argument was to have gone for the M2K back in the early 1980s, *not* the F-16. The sanctions of the 1960s and cold ties of the 1970s should have predisposed the PAF to avoid American fighters, no second (much less third) chances. Like the Mirage III/5, the PAF could have just kept buying M2K variants in small increments.

 

[ziaulislam]

However PAF was the first user. If the french is like that then they can block India for a good deal from else where too.

india is the largest weapon buyer in the world, none can offer a better deal

 

[fatman17]

Sir as far as corruption is concern it's everywhere even in US in every force or govt. agency, but leaving a well established platform just because of few corrupt indivisual is not understandable. If you can kindly explain, Thanks.

Point 2. No cash. Our perennial problem. 3 B $ for 40 aircraft was a tad too high in those days.

 

[mrrehan]

india is the largest weapon buyer in the world, none can offer a better deal

It is Indian madness, million of peoples living beyond what the word poor is. political government at-least smartly spend the taxpayer money, but dirty politics comes from dirty politician.

Point 2. No cash. Our perennial problem. 3 B $ for 40 aircraft was a tad too high in those days.

So it was cost of platform + American sanction benefits as well

Corruption can affect more than just bank accounts. The final price was much higher than what was coming in the package. The French already put a high price thanks to the M2K's relative popularity and the fact that the PAF didn't have any other Western fighter option, but the corruption added another price layer. IMO the best argument was to have gone for the M2K back in the early 1980s, *not* the F-16. The sanctions of the 1960s and cold ties of the 1970s should have predisposed the PAF to avoid American fighters, no second (much less third) chances. Like the Mirage III/5, the PAF could have just kept buying M2K variants in small increments.

Thanks sir, but Is there any possibility to go for M2K now again because we have existing Infrastructure of this platform and conditions are change and it will be not expensive as well, In view of buying J-10B or C or other new platform to replace mirages.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It is Indian madness, million of peoples living beyond what the word poor is. political government at-least smartly spend the taxpayer money, but dirty politics comes from dirty politician.



So it was cost of platform + American sanction benefits as well



Thanks sir, but Is there any possibility to go for M2K now again because we have existing Infrastructure of this platform and conditions are change and it will be not expensive as well, In view of buying J-10B or C or other new platform to replace mirages.

Pakistan doesn't have the infrastructure to manage the M2K, it's completely different from the III/5. It won't be acquiring the M2K considering that the platform considering it is out of the production; no new spare parts, and the existing pool is quite small. The PAF won't be able to sustain those fighters for very long.

 

[mrrehan]

Pakistan doesn't have the infrastructure to manage the M2K, it's completely different from the III/5. It won't be acquiring the M2K considering that the platform considering it is out of the production; no new spare parts, and the existing pool is quite small. The PAF won't be able to sustain those fighters for very long.

Hummm.... Thank you sir

 

[DesiWarrior]

As we are all aware that pretty soon Pakistan air force is formally going to induct fourth squadron of JF-17, I was wondering what happens to the retired planes? Four retired squadrons of F-7P means about 64 planes considering each squadron having 16 planes each and then about 6 planes from CCS, so we should have about 70 retired F-7P's. Are we doing anything with them? Are they stored in a way that they can reactivated in case of emergency requirement?

 

[fatman17]

It is Indian madness, million of peoples living beyond what the word poor is. political government at-least smartly spend the taxpayer money, but dirty politics comes from dirty politician.



So it was cost of platform + American sanction benefits as well



Thanks sir, but Is there any possibility to go for M2K now again because we have existing Infrastructure of this platform and conditions are change and it will be not expensive as well, In view of buying J-10B or C or other new platform to replace mirages.

only used and to be upgraded mirages are now available. production has switched to Rafale.

As we are all aware that pretty soon Pakistan air force is formally going to induct fourth squadron of JF-17, I was wondering what happens to the retired planes? Four retired squadrons of F-7P means about 64 planes considering each squadron having 16 planes each and then about 6 planes from CCS, so we should have about 70 retired F-7P's. Are we doing anything with them? Are they stored in a way that they can reactivated in case of emergency requirement?

40 F-6 and 40 A-5 are stored as reserves. others are donated or become gate-guards all over the country.

 

[mrrehan]

only used and to be upgraded mirages are now available. production has switched to Rafale.

Personally I like Rafale, but again it has two engine. The only option could be perhaps is buy more Mirage 5 and upgrade them to our requirements. Insisting on Mirage platform as it's battle proven mature, over the ocean performance is good, and we have the Infrastructure to keep them alive and active. Hopefully be cost effective.

 

[MystryMan]

Personally I like Rafale, but again it has two engine. The only option could be perhaps is buy more Mirage 5 and upgrade them to our requirements. Insisting on Mirage platform as it's battle proven mature, over the ocean performance is good, and we have the Infrastructure to keep them alive and active. Hopefully be cost effective.

Spending on an older platform of limited capability, Not worth it. Spending on JF-17 would be much better.