Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[fatman17]

Dual purpose dessert strip under use by both PAF & PA at Islamkot in Tharparkar, Sindh .
Barely 80km from Indian border.

View attachment 358441

to be used for aircraft recovery during emergency or outbreak of hostilities.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Question: Why PAF never bother to invest in Mirage 50? or upgrade mirage 5PA/PA2/PA3 to mirage 50? i believe early 90's was a good opportunity to invest in that upgrade. Mirage 50 ROSE-MR could have been a good option.

 

[Windjammer]

Good study of F-7PGs cranked delts, leading edge slats and two piece canopy , some of the main visible differences as compared to standard F-7.

 

[Inception-06]

Good study of F-7PGs cranked delts, leading edge slats and two piece canopy , some of the main visible differences as compared to standard F-7.

View attachment 359001

Which Version of AIM-9 missile the F-7PG can carry ?

 

[khanasifm]

AIM-9M v9 are all slotted for F16s and block 52 older AiM9Ls are now transferred to PG and Mirage ROSE 1 with radar.
PAF still have older AIM9J/P but not sure if thy were upgraded to make them all aspect or not ie AIM9PV4 or something like that (all aspect version AIM 9Ps ie Papa, Aim9L for Lima)

My guess though

 

[fatman17]

AIM-9M v9 are all slotted for F16s and block 52 older AiM9Ls are now transferred to PG and Mirage ROSE 1 with radar.
PAF still have older AIM9J/P but not sure if thy were upgraded to make them all aspect or not ie AIM9PV4 or something like that (all aspect version AIM 9Ps ie Papa, Aim9L for Lima)

My guess though

All rounds upgraded

 

[Awan68]

Even if we assume Turkey to be in Europe; China, Japan, South Korea and India are ahead of Pakistan in the aviation field. We are No. 5 in Asia.

How is india ahead in the aviation field??,- mention one product that is indian in the fighter circles???

 

[Shabi1]

Question: Why PAF never bother to invest in Mirage 50? or upgrade mirage 5PA/PA2/PA3 to mirage 50? i believe early 90's was a good opportunity to invest in that upgrade. Mirage 50 ROSE-MR could have been a good option.

Wishful thinking in the 90s of hoping embargoes would be lifted and F-16s would be released was the reason decision to upgrade Mirage took too long and used Mirage F-1s not acquired when PAF had the opportunity.

Again advent of F-16 Block-52s and MLU upgrades negated the chances of acquiring J-10s when that became available.

However in the end I think turned out well for PAF. PAF will soon have just two major platforms JF-17 and F-16 along with a handful of Mirage Rose or F-7PGs. With a new 5th gen platform joining in 2021-4. It will become a very lean force.

 

[araz]

How is india ahead in the aviation field??,- mention one product that is indian in the fighter circles???

You would be well advised to listen to the seniors here. India was , is and will always be ahead of us in the development cycle. I know we love to hate the LCA but this is an indegenous venture(purely from the classification perspective). We on the other hand have just started our development cycle with the assembly and then manufacturing of the parts of JFT.
As a principle please never underestimate your adversary lt is a fatal flaw in your thinking process. Confident but always thinking you have to catch up with your adversary makes you work hard.
A

 

[Inception-06]

AIM-9M v9 are all slotted for F16s and block 52 older AiM9Ls are now transferred to PG and Mirage ROSE 1 with radar.
PAF still have older AIM9J/P but not sure if thy were upgraded to make them all aspect or not ie AIM9PV4 or something like that (all aspect version AIM 9Ps ie Papa, Aim9L for Lima)

My guess though

Thank you very much, for the fast reply. So the AIM-9 is the most potent air to air missile in our inventory for the Mirage and F-7PG fleet, how about PL-5E, PL-7, PL-8 and PL-9 ? Do we have this in our inventory, if yes, then that's decent air to air missile inventory !

 

[khanasifm]

Aim9 and pl5e2 are only short range aam with paf

 

[Signalian]

Wishful thinking in the 90s of hoping embargoes would be lifted and F-16s would be released was the reason decision to upgrade Mirage took too long and used Mirage F-1s not acquired when PAF had the opportunity.

Again advent of F-16 Block-52s and MLU upgrades negated the chances of acquiring J-10s when that became available.

However in the end I think turned out well for PAF. PAF will soon have just two major platforms JF-17 and F-16 along with a handful of Mirage Rose or F-7PGs. With a new 5th gen platform joining in 2021-4. It will become a very lean force.

PAF has a defensive setup when the aircraft inventory is observed. In own skies, PAF is a lean force.

F-7P/PG is a point defence or escort fighter. It should have been completely retired by now or in coming couple of years, which was envisioned when JF-17 was brought into perspective. It is limited by many aspects. Upgrading it has reached its limit. It is very effective in a dog fight when its complementing F-16 and JF-17 to make up numbers in the air. Put drop tanks to increase range and compromise on its payload. The air frames are relatively new for PG versions. Bangladeshis have a put 7 hard points on it to make it more potent for BAF. But over all this aircraft in PAF is in front line service instead of reserves because no other alternative has been acquired yet.

Mirage,Rose or non-Rose, have also reached their limitations. Their usefulness is there but their life on most frames is over. Its the lack of choice that PAF has which is why these planes are still in first line of duty for strike role after F-16. PAF once went on a world wide shopping spree to get the Mirage-III/V body frames and planes from all parts of the world. This brings the choices that PAF had to replace these aircrafts early which would never had increased their numbers beyond 120 or so and probably would have also kept the F-7P/PG population down just like A-5 and retired them quickly.
Mirage-2000 probably if acquired in 80's or 90's would have even given PAF a great opportunity to bring a aircraft in air which is comparable in capabilities to F-16. The dependency on F-16 would have not have been so high as it is now currently. Instead of Mirage III/V in hundreds, PAF would have acquired Mirage-2000 in hundreds. The 3rd gen aircrafts like F-7 and Mirage II/V would have been retired and PAF would be operating only 4th gen with JF-17, F-16 and Mirage-2000. In fact PAF could have got rid of F-16 completely from its inventory instead of maximising its numbers in lieu of Mirage-2000. This move could have brought J-10 in PAF and PAF would be fielding the first AESA with FC-10 or J-10B.

Even if considering that F-16 nullified the possibility of J-10 in PAF and that the cash in PAF hand can be spent on 5th gen aircraft, the numbers and limitations of 5th gen aircraft will again put F-16 to take the brunt of the burden of PAF. 5th Gen will be two squadrons at most to start with and God knows when PAF will increase them from two squadrons to 4 or 5. The payload carried by 5th gen aircraft while retaining its stealth capabilities, is still small, but it will give two advantages to PAF.
1. Offensive capability of PAF will be increased ten folds.
2. PAF will win the 5th gen induction race from IAF.
The cost of operation and maintenance of 5th gen can still be considered more than 4th gen fighters.

PAF could be eventually planning of:
4th gen aircraft: F-16 and JF-17.
4.5 gen aircraft: JF-17 Block 3
5th gen aircraft: J-31 probably.

JF-17 will be the maximum numbers that PAF will field, a light category. F-16 is a medium category, reaching 100 mark seems very difficult now and then J-31 will be a stealth category. A medium or heavy category of 4.5 gen aircraft like SU35 or EF2000 would have given a fresh lethal look to PAF before any 5th gen is inducted.

 

[Inception-06]

Aim9 and pl5e2 are only short range aam with paf

And what are the long range operational missiles for the F-7 and Mirage Fleet ? If any exist ?

PAF has a defensive setup when the aircraft inventory is observed. In own skies, PAF is a lean force.

F-7P/PG is a point defence or escort fighter. It should have been completely retired by now or in coming couple of years, which was envisioned when JF-17 was brought into perspective. It is limited by many aspects. Upgrading it has reached its limit. It is very effective in a dog fight when its complementing F-16 and JF-17 to make up numbers in the air. Put drop tanks to increase range and compromise on its payload. The air frames are relatively new for PG versions. Bangladeshis have a put 7 hard points on it to make it more potent for BAF. But over all this aircraft in PAF is in front line service instead of reserves because no other alternative has been acquired yet.

Mirage,Rose or non-Rose, have also reached their limitations. Their usefulness is there but their life on most frames is over. Its the lack of choice that PAF has which is why these planes are still in first line of duty for strike role after F-16. PAF once went on a world wide shopping spree to get the Mirage-III/V body frames and planes from all parts of the world. This brings the choices that PAF had to replace these aircrafts early which would never had increased their numbers beyond 120 or so and probably would have also kept the F-7P/PG population down just like A-5 and retired them quickly.
Mirage-2000 probably if acquired in 80's or 90's would have even given PAF a great opportunity to bring a aircraft in air which is comparable in capabilities to F-16. The dependency on F-16 would have not have been so high as it is now currently. Instead of Mirage III/V in hundreds, PAF would have acquired Mirage-2000 in hundreds. The 3rd gen aircrafts like F-7 and Mirage II/V would have been retired and PAF would be operating only 4th gen with JF-17, F-16 and Mirage-2000. In fact PAF could have got rid of F-16 completely from its inventory instead of maximising its numbers in lieu of Mirage-2000. This move could have brought J-10 in PAF and PAF would be fielding the first AESA with FC-10 or J-10B.

Even if considering that F-16 nullified the possibility of J-10 in PAF and that the cash in PAF hand can be spent on 5th gen aircraft, the numbers and limitations of 5th gen aircraft will again put F-16 to take the brunt of the burden of PAF. 5th Gen will be two squadrons at most to start with and God knows when PAF will increase them from two squadrons to 4 or 5. The payload carried by 5th gen aircraft while retaining its stealth capabilities, is still small, but it will give two advantages to PAF.
1. Offensive capability of PAF will be increased ten folds.
2. PAF will win the 5th gen induction race from IAF.
The cost of operation and maintenance of 5th gen can still be considered more than 4th gen fighters.

PAF could be eventually planning of:
4th gen aircraft: F-16 and JF-17.
4.5 gen aircraft: JF-17 Block 3
5th gen aircraft: J-31 probably.

JF-17 will be the maximum numbers that PAF will field, a light category. F-16 is a medium category, reaching 100 mark seems very difficult now and then J-31 will be a stealth category. A medium or heavy category of 4.5 gen aircraft like SU35 or EF2000 would have given a fresh lethal look to PAF before any 5th gen is inducted.

Good Morning Pakistan !

A selam Brother how are you ?

A very clearly and understandable written article, but do one thing, and tag me always, when you write or post anything in the Military section, I always enjoy a cup of tea or meal, while reading good texts in PDF !

regards

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF has a defensive setup when the aircraft inventory is observed. In own skies, PAF is a lean force.

F-7P/PG is a point defence or escort fighter. It should have been completely retired by now or in coming couple of years, which was envisioned when JF-17 was brought into perspective. It is limited by many aspects. Upgrading it has reached its limit. It is very effective in a dog fight when its complementing F-16 and JF-17 to make up numbers in the air. Put drop tanks to increase range and compromise on its payload. The air frames are relatively new for PG versions. Bangladeshis have a put 7 hard points on it to make it more potent for BAF. But over all this aircraft in PAF is in front line service instead of reserves because no other alternative has been acquired yet.

Mirage,Rose or non-Rose, have also reached their limitations. Their usefulness is there but their life on most frames is over. Its the lack of choice that PAF has which is why these planes are still in first line of duty for strike role after F-16. PAF once went on a world wide shopping spree to get the Mirage-III/V body frames and planes from all parts of the world. This brings the choices that PAF had to replace these aircrafts early which would never had increased their numbers beyond 120 or so and probably would have also kept the F-7P/PG population down just like A-5 and retired them quickly.
Mirage-2000 probably if acquired in 80's or 90's would have even given PAF a great opportunity to bring a aircraft in air which is comparable in capabilities to F-16. The dependency on F-16 would have not have been so high as it is now currently. Instead of Mirage III/V in hundreds, PAF would have acquired Mirage-2000 in hundreds. The 3rd gen aircrafts like F-7 and Mirage II/V would have been retired and PAF would be operating only 4th gen with JF-17, F-16 and Mirage-2000. In fact PAF could have got rid of F-16 completely from its inventory instead of maximising its numbers in lieu of Mirage-2000. This move could have brought J-10 in PAF and PAF would be fielding the first AESA with FC-10 or J-10B.

Even if considering that F-16 nullified the possibility of J-10 in PAF and that the cash in PAF hand can be spent on 5th gen aircraft, the numbers and limitations of 5th gen aircraft will again put F-16 to take the brunt of the burden of PAF. 5th Gen will be two squadrons at most to start with and God knows when PAF will increase them from two squadrons to 4 or 5. The payload carried by 5th gen aircraft while retaining its stealth capabilities, is still small, but it will give two advantages to PAF.
1. Offensive capability of PAF will be increased ten folds.
2. PAF will win the 5th gen induction race from IAF.
The cost of operation and maintenance of 5th gen can still be considered more than 4th gen fighters.

PAF could be eventually planning of:
4th gen aircraft: F-16 and JF-17.
4.5 gen aircraft: JF-17 Block 3
5th gen aircraft: J-31 probably.

JF-17 will be the maximum numbers that PAF will field, a light category. F-16 is a medium category, reaching 100 mark seems very difficult now and then J-31 will be a stealth category. A medium or heavy category of 4.5 gen aircraft like SU35 or EF2000 would have given a fresh lethal look to PAF before any 5th gen is inducted.

Hi,

A very well thought of article---but one thing must be remembered---if Paf had diversified to M2k's--there would be no restrictions on the F16's.

You only squeeze the ballz to hurt---but when there is no pain---the purpose of squeezing the ballz evaporates---.

 

[fatman17]

Thank you very much, for the fast reply. So the AIM-9 is the most potent air to air missile in our inventory for the Mirage and F-7PG fleet, how about PL-5E, PL-7, PL-8 and PL-9 ? Do we have this in our inventory, if yes, then that's decent air to air missile inventory !

AIM120C5