Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[araz]

Mirages and F-7s aren't gonna be around forever and the agressive step of ACM to lessen the hours required to shift to F-16 ( JFT comes later cause F-16 got a trainer ) have made LIFT utmost necessity. Yet PAF chose economical option of TF-17 ( my designation, until official ) over dedicated LIFT platform, thus accelerating it's development which will help with exports too. As it was one of the handicaps preventing exports because as fatman17 said most potential JFT operators would be smaller Air arms with less resources and training hence can't adapt PAF's approach.

Yaara
I have never denied the utility. I am just questioning the lack of vision on the part of PAF. The block obsolence of the fleet was apparent a long time ago and even PGs were a stop gap for lack of any other platform. The JFT was already signed for. So why did we not make a trainer/dual seat at the same time. This is what Iam trying to understand.
The previous ACMs statements were more a case of putting the best light to an adverse situation rather than actual fact. However it does bring to light the individuality of the decision making cycle rather than a well thought out and wetted group decision making. This is a bad thing as turn arounds and twists mid of a move are more wasteful and cost prohibitive.
Please understand that my question is more about understanding the decision making process than the actual decision. Ifully agree that it is a very prudent move. There maybe other factors which I dont want to discuss on the open forum. But let us leave those for the moment. One last factor which is a part of our national psyche is complacency. This is what this reeks of ."Oh chalo jee no problem sub kuch theek hai" should not be a part of the decision making cycle.
I hope I have clearified my statement and the reasons behind my earlier posts.
Araz

 

[CHI RULES]

PAF no doubt has good brains but they require urgency in decisions and how to move efficiently in worst conditions. They should at least go for up gradation of F16;s with AESA radars if J10b is not on cards in near future. Only relying on superior skills of Fighter Pilots is not a wise decision. U have example of Singapore a little country surrounded by strong neighbors yet no one can dare to challenge it due to superior Armed forces. By the way Indian may have got much info about capabilities of F16 from Singapore. So we should have contingency plan it is near to must that either we should immediately start production of upgraded Jf17s or should get few squadrons of J10b with AESA. Further should start immediate retirement of Mirages (you may say death coffins of PAF) to save precious lives of our brave pilots.

Non availability of think tanks and future strategy is a big flaw of our country in all fields.

 

[araz]

PAF no doubt has good brains but they require urgency in decisions and how to move efficiently in worst conditions. They should at least go for up gradation of F16;s with AESA radars if J10b is not on cards in near future. Only relying on superior skills of Fighter Pilots is not a wise decision. U have example of Singapore a little country surrounded by strong neighbors yet no one can dare to challenge it due to superior Armed forces. By the way Indian may have got much info about capabilities of F16 from Singapore. So we should have contingency plan it is near to must that either we should immediately start production of upgraded Jf17s or should get few squadrons of J10b with AESA. Further should start immediate retirement of Mirages (you may say death coffins of PAF) to save precious lives of our brave pilots.

Non availability of think tanks and future strategy is a big flaw of our country in all fields.

SubhanAllah! They have been upgraded just now with a PD Radar that will make the enemies shit their pants and you want them to upgrade to an AESA. The upgrade cost may well exceed million per pop x76 and may well and set the whole programme back by at least 3-5 yrs. So instead of having one established platform we will have none. There is no established example of block 15 with AESA which means Lockmart will charge you for the research and laugh all the way back to the bank . I can see a lot of the indianTop brass giving you a salute as well for this suggestion.
And by the by How do you propose we pay for this upgrade to AESA.
Little brother we need To keep our expectations realistic. F16s with AWACS will rock inspite of not having an AESA . We dont need fo fix that which is not broken. Believe me in the priority list PAF can do wonders wit the money that you are proposing to spend on AESA upgrade of F16s. I am sorry for the sarcasm above but it is to deter any such thoughts in future from another little brother.
Regards

 

[volatile]

I think for training dual seater is good one but dual seat also provides some special benfits like for bombing raid`s in hostile environment weapon`s officer can do his task where as pilot can do his .Also I agree with ACM and previous one if you take this as product what do you see .Consider product life cycle for thunder.

1.Stage 1 R&D which for any product is crucial which Al Humdulillah we have done and continue
2.Stage 2 Product Introduction .Which is done again with flying colour`s .
3.Stage 3 Product maturity which we are going through (I think it is 80%) done
4 Stage 4 Product maturity where proven techs are incorporated and smooth production start`s
5 Stage 5 Product life enhancing (MLU) incase of thunder Dual seater ,some structural mod.
6 Stage 6 Product decline or it needs to be replaced .

Here is reference diagram for this .As working in manufacturing sector for more than 10 years with hands on experience I am totally satisfied with development .Please stop comparing with F-16 as it is not (F-16 matures over 40 years) and even today developing .It is good professional know what they are doing .If this was not promising we wouldn't have gone that far as this is Pakistan we like to do criticize a lot without realizing ground realities .

 

[araz]

I think for training dual seater is good one but dual seat also provides some special benfits like for bombing raid`s in hostile environment weapon`s officer can do his task where as pilot can do his .Also I agree with ACM and previous one if you take this as product what do you see .Consider product life cycle for thunder.

1.Stage 1 R&D which for any product is crucial which Al Humdulillah we have done and continue
2.Stage 2 Product Introduction .Which is done again with flying colour`s .
3.Stage 3 Product maturity which we are going through (I think it is 80%) done
4 Stage 4 Product maturity where proven techs are incorporated and smooth production start`s
5 Stage 5 Product life enhancing (MLU) incase of thunder Dual seater ,some structural mod.
6 Stage 6 Product decline or it needs to be replaced .

Here is reference diagram for this .As working in manufacturing sector for more than 10 years with hands on experience I am totally satisfied with development .Please stop comparing with F-16 as it is not (F-16 matures over 40 years) and even today developing .It is good professional know what they are doing .If this was not promising we wouldn't have gone that far as this is Pakistan we like to do criticize a lot without realizing ground realities .

I dont think you have understood the jist of the discussion. The JFT programme as a whole has been a resounding success and no one in their right mind would deny that. The question is the utility of and the decision making regarding a dual seat variant. Also in question is the decision methodology of PAF with regards to the dual seater. I will be the first one to acknowledge the mistake in my assumption if someone can please clarify the questions raised. Your post pertains to the manufacturing of the JFT which has never been in doubt.
I hope this clarifies the questions raised.
Araz

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I just found this on you tube.

I know major part of it is not real, but part is real.

It is tasty, juicy, sexy and works like an aphrodisiac - the music is spot on. WATCH till the end.

Enjoy:

@Windjammer; @nomi007; @MastanKhan; @Imran Khan

 

[fatman17]

Risalpur flying training log

 

[fatman17]

No 14 Sq

 

[nomi007]

The man who escorted C-130
28 May Youm-E-Takbeer.

Wing Commander Haseeb Paracha, The man who escorted C-130s from Israeli threats when Pakistan was deploying its Nuclear devices in Chaghi and subsequently flew the missions to deter any interference from across the border.
He was also the man behind Highmark 2005, one of the main goal was to fly 8000 sorties within two week period utilising all infrastructure including the Motorways.

and he was ordered to shot down the C-130 in any unusual situation....and there was no radio contact of Pilots with ground

 

[fatman17]

The man who escorted C-130
28 May Youm-E-Takbeer.

Wing Commander Haseeb Paracha, The man who escorted C-130s from Israeli threats when Pakistan was deploying its Nuclear devices in Chaghi and subsequently flew the missions to deter any interference from across the border.
He was also the man behind Highmark 2005, one of the main goal was to fly 8000 sorties within two week period utilising all infrastructure including the Motorways.

and he was ordered to shot down the C-130 in any unusual situation....and there was no radio contact of Pilots with ground

The airforce was fxing serious on and after may 28th. They had orders to shoot down anybody.

 

[fatman17]

Just a nice pic

 

[nomi007]

The airforce was fxing serious on and after may 28th. They had orders to shoot down anybody.

we are not other islamic countries
our intelligence & military standard is higher than even many western standard

 

[truthseeker2010]

The man who escorted C-130
28 May Youm-E-Takbeer.

Wing Commander Haseeb Paracha, The man who escorted C-130s from Israeli threats when Pakistan was deploying its Nuclear devices in Chaghi and subsequently flew the missions to deter any interference from across the border.
He was also the man behind Highmark 2005, one of the main goal was to fly 8000 sorties within two week period utilising all infrastructure including the Motorways.

and he was ordered to shot down the C-130 in any unusual situation....and there was no radio contact of Pilots with ground

@Windjammer Sir your comments on this........

 

[Windjammer]

@Windjammer Sir your comments on this........

My dear, that was actually disclosed by me elsewhere which has been copy pasted here.

 

[truthseeker2010]

My dear, that was actually disclosed by me elsewhere which has been copy pasted here.

whats your take on it sir, as the mission were performed on war footing, since PAF was expecting visitors, did they turned up?