Pakistan Air Force needs to replace 190 planes by 2020

[Tipu7]

No. 20 Sqn Eagles F-7 PG Air Superiority
No. 23 Sqn Talons F-7 PG Air Superiority
Urgent Replacement Required

F7 PG is likely to stay for a while. They will be replaced by Blk3 JFT after 2020.

If one JF-17 squadron is inducted every year, this could mean that whole F-7 fleet is replaced in next 5 years. and after that maybe replace the Naval Mirages with Naval JF-17

From this year to so on, we will be producing ~25 aircrafts per year. Which mean three squadrons can be replaced in two years.

Also, the number 190 is equivalent to 12 Squadrons. And this figure of 190 aircrafts is not from now on, but from Zardari era.

Out of 12 Squadrons, 3 are already inducted.
And if we achieve production target of JFT, then we will be adding 7 more squadrons by 2020, including one squadron of Blk3.

As per rest rest two squadrons replacement, ONE is for F16 Blk52 and one is for 2nd Hand F16'........

Thus in total figure of 12 Squadrons
3 squadrons of JFT are already operational
7 Squadrons of JFT will be produced
1 squadron of F16 blk 52 will be raised
1 squadron of F16 blk 15 will be raised


Thus achieving the required target.........
At least this is what is PAF plan .......

 

[_NOBODY_]

In my opinion JF-17 block 2 won't replace ROSE Mirage(of PAF not PN) and we have to replace 190 fighters by 2020 so until block 3 arrives F-16 would replace ROSE Mirage. This is just my opinion, please correct me if I am wrong.
@The Eagle I am sorry that I previously posted this on the wrong thread.

 

[Shabi1]

In my opinion JF-17 block 2 won't replace ROSE Mirage(of PAF not PN) and we have to replace 190 fighters by 2020 so until block 3 arrives F-16 would replace ROSE Mirage. This is just my opinion, please correct me if I am wrong.
@The Eagle I am sorry that I previously posted this on the wrong thread.

With priority for replacing F-7Ps and non upgraded Mirages, not enough JF-17 Block-2s left in pipeline till shift to Block-3 production. So likely yes, Mirage Roses will continue to fly longer. Additional F-16s is an unknown factor, I personally think we will be acquiring used F-16 MLUs to replace Rose-2/3s as they are strike aircraft. Rose-1 have an Air to Air role so they might be replaced with JF-17 Block-3 or another future variant.

 

[m52k85]

PAF uses more than 18 aircrafts or different aircrafts in one squadron(Mirage III/V) which is why aircraft numbers have swelled up. If the equation is seen from a squadron point of view then it comes out as follows:

No. 2 Sqn Minhas JF-17 MultiRole
No. 16 Sqn Panthers JF-17 OCU/Multi Role
No. 26 Sqn Black Spiders JF-17 MultiRole
Replacement NOT required

No. 5 Sqn Falcons F-16 Block 52+ MultiRole
No. 9 Sqn Griffins F-16 Block Block 15 MLU MultiRole
No. 11 Sqn Arrows F-16 Block Block 15 MLU OCU /MultiRole
No. 19 Sqn Sherdils F-16 Block Block 15 ADF Multi Role / Air Defence
Replacement NOT Required


No. 7 Sqn Bandits Mirage-III ROSE I EA, DP, EL Tactical Attack/ Air Defence
No. 25 Sqn Night Strike Eagles Mirage-V EF ROSE II Mirage-III DP Tactical Attack
No. 27 Sqn Zarrars Mirage-V EF ROSE III Tactical Attack
ROSE Upgraded will NOT be replaced soon

No. 8 Sqn Haiders Mirage-V PA2, PA3 Tactical Attack/ Air Defence
Naval support


This following makes around 7 Squadrons X 18 aircrafts = 126 aircrafts as Urgent requirement. in coming years.

No.15 Sqn Cobras Mirage-III RP, EP Mirage-V PA,DA,DR Tactical Attack
No. 22 Sqn Ghazis Mirage-III DF/DA/EL/DL OCU
Urgent Replacement Required

Total is 2 X Squadrons for Strike Role

If further F-16 are procured , this is the spot they could be filling in.
Infact FC-20 in quantity of 36-40 aircrafts could have filled in here but thats not foreseeable any more.

No.14 Sqn Tail choppers F-7 P Air Superiority
No. 17 Sqn Tigers F-7 PG
No. 18 Sqn War Hawks F-7 P OCU
No. 20 Sqn Eagles F-7 PG Air Superiority
No. 23 Sqn Talons F-7 PG Air Superiority
Urgent Replacement Required
Total is 5 X Squadrons for Air Superiority Role.

These 5 could be the first ones to be replaced by JF-17. If one JF-17 squadron is inducted every year, this could mean that whole F-7 fleet is replaced in next 5 years. and after that maybe replace the Naval Mirages with Naval JF-17.

Maybe if PAF procures J-31 after a decade or so, the ROSE Mirages may get replaced too.

2020 has passed and not looking good.

 

[m52k85]

As per rest rest two squadrons replacement, ONE is for F16 Blk52 and one is for 2nd Hand F16'........

Thus in total figure of 12 Squadrons
3 squadrons of JFT are already operational
7 Squadrons of JFT will be produced
1 squadron of F16 blk 52 will be raised
1 squadron of F16 blk 15 will be raised


Thus achieving the required target.........
At least this is what is PAF plan .......

Going by your assessment that 190 planes was 12 squadrons, and it was not from 2016 but Zardari era, we have still missed the target by 5 squadrons:
1. We now have 7 instead of 10 sqds of JF-17s (Btw, your numbers imply a production run of 150 pre-block-IIIs, which was never the plan.
2. The 2 sqds of F-16 didnt show up.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

I guess we managed to replace 65 planes

 

[m52k85]

I guess we managed to replace 65 planes

Depends on how you count.

If counting how many we obtained from 2016 to date, then thats 88 pieces.

If you count how many old planes were phased out and replaced then (assuming 18 per sqd) thats slightly lower at 70 because an addional no.28 sqd was raised.

If you count how @Tipu7 was then you will add the 50 block Is of Jfs produced before 2016 and that comes to 120 (70+50).

In any case we missed the mark by a significant amount, and as things stand now we are 3 to 5 yrs behind target assuming only blk-IIIs come in that period.

 

[maverick1977]

Most will likely cannablize the retired aircrafts for spares remaining to be replaced aircrafts till block3 is inducted

 

[PakAlp]

PAF has done very well, they inducted a good amount of 4th generation fighter jets, fully equipped with the latest weapons. They may have fallen behind schedule but 200+ 4th generation fighter jets is the step in the right direction. As long as Jf17 Block 3 is a beast, let PAF take another year

 

[SQ8]

I guess we managed to replace 65 planes

2011 - the plan was to have 75 F-16’s, 150 JF-17 and 50PGs by 2020 with some odd Mirages, then wait for a 5th gen. So if one ignores the attrition on F-16’s and the delay in block-III. The PAF is about 40 jets or so behind its goal but it has retained the Mirages in greater number to keep abreast. So while it may be behind in some 4th procurement, it does have the strike element it can make do with for now.

Compare that to the lofty goals of 2005 to have 100 or more F-16’s , 150 JF-17s, 60 J-10’s(FC-20) and then some 50 PGs.
you can thank the 2005 earthquake first and then Zardari & Co for destroying Pakistani military modernization programs - leaving aside some internal drama that set back all services by years.

 

[Yasser76]

In my opinion PAF has not done too bad. All frontline F-7s retired (only F-7PGs left), Mirages are still going but we went from a situation of no BVR righters, no AEW, no in flight refuellers and no long range precision strike to what we have now

12 BVR/4th Gen squadrons
10 AEW
4 Refuellers

Mirages and F-7PG make up 8 squadrons but every year this number will go down.

If we can produce a squadrons worth of JF-17s a year and maybe procure 2 squadrons of J-10, then in 4 years you will see a completely modern PAF, entirely equipped with BVR/PGM capable fighters (F-16, JF-17 and J-10), just as importantly we can get down to just having 3 types which makes life much easier )maybe retaining F-7PG for combat training)

Compare this to the IAF

8 squadrons of MIG-21s and 6 Jaguar Squadrons with no replacement coming (LCA contract not signed)

Combined they have 30 squadrons but half of these are Jaguar/MIG-21s. Rafale will only be 36 planes.

Of the 30 squadrons they have 8 types of fighter jet!!!!

Vis a vis IAF, the PAF have not done too bad and with each passing year will get more modern as IAF needs to work out how it replaces 14 Squadrons of planes with no LCA in sight....

 

[ziaulislam]

In my opinion PAF has not done too bad. All frontline F-7s retired (only F-7PGs left), Mirages are still going but we went from a situation of no BVR righters, no AEW, no in flight refuellers and no long range precision strike to what we have now

12 BVR/4th Gen squadrons
10 AEW
4 Refuellers

Mirages and F-7PG make up 8 squadrons but every year this number will go down.

If we can produce a squadrons worth of JF-17s a year and maybe procure 2 squadrons of J-10, then in 4 years you will see a completely modern PAF, entirely equipped with BVR/PGM capable fighters (F-16, JF-17 and J-10), just as importantly we can get down to just having 3 types which makes life much easier )maybe retaining F-7PG for combat training)

Compare this to the IAF

8 squadrons of MIG-21s and 6 Jaguar Squadrons with no replacement coming (LCA contract not signed)

Combined they have 30 squadrons but half of these are Jaguar/MIG-21s. Rafale will only be 36 planes.

Of the 30 squadrons they have 8 types of fighter jet!!!!

Vis a vis IAF, the PAF have not done too bad and with each passing year will get more modern as IAF needs to work out how it replaces 14 Squadrons of planes with no LCA in sight....

Well expected 1-2 squardons of f16 & 1-2 squardons of j10 didnt materilazed
Block 3 is about a year or late then ideal situation (back in 2015 schedule) due to delay in rd93ma & AESA but seems will be on track in 2022

Expect 1 sq/year beyond 2022..
If we are lucky we might still get f16

Challenge will be can we put azm into protype stage by 2030

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

2011 - the plan was to have 75 F-16’s, 150 JF-17 and 50PGs by 2020 with some odd Mirages, then wait for a 5th gen. So if one ignores the attrition on F-16’s and the delay in block-III. The PAF is about 40 jets or so behind its goal but it has retained the Mirages in greater number to keep abreast. So while it may be behind in some 4th procurement, it does have the strike element it can make do with for now.

Compare that to the lofty goals of 2005 to have 100 or more F-16’s , 150 JF-17s, 60 J-10’s(FC-20) and then some 50 PGs.
you can thank the 2005 earthquake first and then Zardari & Co for destroying Pakistani military modernization programs - leaving aside some internal drama that set back all services by years.

The PAF did up the JF-17 numbers to 188 (26 JF-17B and 12 Block-2). That will absorb some of the F-16 and F-7PG losses, and help let go of a few Mirages. The one variance (which is more up to China's willingness to extend credit) is J-10CE.

 

[SQ8]

The PAF did up the JF-17 numbers to 188 (26 JF-17B and 12 Block-2). That will absorb some of the F-16 and F-7PG losses, and help let go of a few Mirages. The one variance (which is more up to China's willingness to extend credit) is J-10CE.

So far, there are other factors if friends are to be believed that the PAF has upped the IAF in. But it’s a constant arms race and our economy isn’t geared to deal with the expensive business of arms in anything but the short run.

If India even goes to 1/2 the sacrifices in national development we have to keep our defenses to a certain point ; we’re done for conventionally completely and will have to lower our nuclear threshold to basically 7 days of full fledged conflict.

The problem with all of everyone here’s wishes and hopes is just that; they are facing the collective “shoot yourself in the foot” of this people. Why were the ZDK’s bought? Why were staff cars purchased instead of additional spares or equipment? Why was the wrong person in charge of so many, many leapfrog programs Pakistan had?

All philosophical and hard questions that not just you or I, but everyone here has to ask. But since every other unqualified braggart hack here is an expert and worshipped here we end up with the representation of the dilemma this nation.

A Pl-15 outranging the Meteor may down a Rafale, but if it hangs on the rail or is fired in bravado without just the right input - starting with the national leadership down to the pilot thumbing the weapons release switch; it doesn’t mean squat.

 

[MastanKhan]

So far, there are other factors if friends are to be believed that the PAF has upped the IAF in. But it’s a constant arms race and our economy isn’t geared to deal with the expensive business of arms in anything but the short run.

If India even goes to 1/2 the sacrifices in national development we have to keep our defenses to a certain point ; we’re done for conventionally completely and will have to lower our nuclear threshold to basically 7 days of full fledged conflict.

The problem with all of everyone here’s wishes and hopes is just that; they are facing the collective “shoot yourself in the foot” of this people. Why were the ZDK’s bought? Why were staff cards purchased instead of additional spares or equipment? Why was the wrong person in charge of so many, many leapfrog programs Pakistan had?

All philosophical and hard questions that not just you or I, but everyone here has to ask. But since every other unqualified braggart hack here is an expert and worshipped here we end up with the representation of the dilemma this nation.

A Pl-15 outranging the Meteor may down a Rafale, but if it hangs on the rail or is fired in bravado without just the right input - starting with the national leadership down to the pilot thumbing the weapons release switch; it doesn’t mean squat.

Hi,

For once---why don't you clearly state what needs to be done---rather than live on sarcastic comments most of the time---.