Pakistan Air Force needs to replace 190 planes by 2020

[crankthatskunk]

Sorry if you feel offended and I must admit it was never my intention to downrate anyone not to rise anyone's reputation, but as you surely understand there are quite different qualities of members in a forum ranging for young enthusiasts over simple fan-boys over trolls to true specialists and experts.

As such if you have a claim that let's say, the J-20 is using a domestically built +240kN serial WS-15 from day one (aka January 20211) or that the JF-17 is powered by a secret Italian engine, then such claims have to be weighted differently than let's say a certain claim is made by @Quwa or @LKJ86? Or am I wrong?

I am sure that is the case. First of all, nobody here knows me. So that is a disadvantage!!
But when you running a forum, there should be same rules for everyone, irrespective.
The point is simple, if someone at least quote a source, that is subject to deletion but someone just say so, is fine!! I am sure, no forum can run on these principles. Too numerous incidents.

Few days ago I was given a soft warning for misleading title. Even though the news was genuine, the source was genuine. What happened that i wanted to paste the news from another Indian newspaper, but their page keep coming up with annoying popups, which was stopping me from copying the text.
I found the same news from another Indian newspaper site and posted that. But unfortunately forgot to change the title. Even though the title was similar, may be wording slightly different. But it was the same news.

Getting soft warnings for such thread baffles me. When as a matter of fact, I have quietly observed that there are many who start plenty of threads without any source. Some post pictures pretending that they got an exclusive picture of PAF jets etc. which proven to be old pictures.

But not to worry, as you have described , not "all men are equal" on this forum. I may get banned for writing it. so be it. @MastanKhan

 

[Deino]

I am sure that is the case. First of all, nobody here knows me. So that is a disadvantage!!
But when you running a forum, there should be same rules for everyone, irrespective.
The point is simple, if someone at least quote a source, that is subject to deletion but someone just say so, is fine!! I am sure, no forum can run on these principles. Too numerous incidents.

Few days ago I was given a soft warning for misleading title. Even though the news was genuine, the source was genuine. What happened that i wanted to paste the news from another Indian newspaper, but their page keep coming up with annoying popups, which was stopping me from copying the text.
I found the same news from another Indian newspaper site and posted that. But unfortunately forgot to change the title. Even though the title was similar, may be wording slightly different. But it was the same news.

Getting soft warnings for such thread baffles me. When as a matter of fact, I have quietly observed that there are many who start plenty of threads without any source. Some post pictures pretending that they got an exclusive picture of PAF jets etc. which proven to be old pictures.

But not to worry, as you have described , not "all men are equal" on this forum. I may get banned for writing it. so be it. @MastanKhan

Not sure why so offensive especially only for asking a question and even more since I#M NOT a moderator in the Pakistani section I enjoy the same rights as everyone else.

Indeed I don't know you which might be a disadvantage but you must admit at least from an academic standpoint a public news-report is barely a "source"? Even more I don't understand why you call out for MK since especially he's one of those I had in mind above, but that's another story.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Not sure why so offensive especially only for asking a question and even more since I#M NOT a moderator in the Pakistani section I enjoy the same rights as everyone else.

Indeed I don't know you which might be a disadvantage but you must admit at least from an academic standpoint a public news-report is barely a "source"? Even more I don't understand why you call out for MK since especially he's one of those I had in mind above, but that's another story.

Oh don't get any wrong ideas. I mentioned MK because he and me have similar views on this issue. No other reason. I don't know anything between you two, and even if I do, I do not interfere with anyone's posts.

 

[MIRauf]

there is no 2025-2027 time frame.

there is a clear n present danger NOW. It can happen any time

If that is the case then Pak Armed Forces will have to fight with what they have in their inventory. PAF etc can't complain that they don't have enough of this or that except for the F-16s as they had ample time to find a different but close to equivalent supporting fighter jet.

There had been good year+ pause between Block-I production ending and Block-II starting, PAC could have churned out another Squadron worth of Block-I in that time frame. Not to mention the slow rate of production, yes one can blame the economy and ruling class for it, but how much ?

Mk will have a field day on the point of PAF parting with $Billions for F-16 Block-52 in lieu of support for Earthquake.

Too many Bridges have been burned by this point for any in-flux of material in case of hostility, except for F-7s and may be Chinese Armor.

 

[MIRauf]

Two camps of thought :
1. Original order was for 6-8 Saab 2000’s but this was reduced to accommodate a new initiative by the leadership of the time to buy the ZDK-03s.
2. Plenty of objections were given to this move - both provided pros and cons but time has not been kind to the evaluation of the ZDK in some aspects while the erieye has has full marks through and through (almost).
[/USER]

The KJ-500 type upgrade touted for ZDK-03, has it happened ? if so, is the upgrade worth it to make the platform comparable to Erieye ?

 

[maverick1977]

Remember Pakistan will always maintain the acceleration ladder... Thats whats been said..

 

[SQ8]

The KJ-500 type upgrade touted for ZDK-03, has it happened ? if so, is the upgrade worth it to make the platform comparable to Erieye ?

I really am not aware of the exact comparison - however, per my understanding of posts by @airomerix @Raider 21 and others, the concerns with the platform go beyond the radar - which does have some better performance in particular modes suited to maritime regions and has been focused on the coast accordingly.

 

[Itachi]

I would take 10 Gen 5 crafts along with standoff cargo planes filled with BVR's and other stuff over 190 obsolete planes which will only be a burden on the state and the taxpayer and will become scrap metal once an actual war starts.

Numbers don't mean anything in any future war...even one gen 6 craft can run circles around 190 gen 4 crafts just by lasering them down like flies...unlimited ammo has its perks.

 

[MastanKhan]

What are you smoking. 4types 054 and 8 submarines procurement was officially signed 4-5 years back. There was NO secrecy maintained hence there was never any doubt. Now tell me where is any such official confirmation of J10s in the past decade ? or even close to be "official". We have been hearing about this jet from Musharaf days yet no induction. So any doubt/question regarding official confirmation fully stands to date. By now posters like you should have been really careful regarding J10 purchase but alas, this hasn't been the case. I think K****f leaks on the other forum has really corrupted people out here with serious misinformation.

As far as VT4 are concerned, they are no big ticket items like a navy frigate/submarine or a fighter plane so people don't care much about such deals. Mind you, a Chinese member here on PDF, confirmed about their purchase 1.5 years back that a deal has been signed by an unknown foreign customer for Vt4 (citing Chinese sources websites) and he was sure that the customer was Pakistan because of their trails in Pakistan back in 2018.

Hi,

He is talking about the time before that when deino was on sinodef forum and claimed pakistan to be a beggar nation and has no money to buy any equipment and china will not sell to pakistan.

 

[Itachi]

Hi,

He is talking about the time before that when deino was on sinodef forum and claimed pakistan to be a beggar nation and has no money to buy any equipment and china will not sell to pakistan.

Spicy exposing.....go on...

 

[Chakar The Great]

This line tells about the credibility of editors even at most respected news publication in Pakistan.

Russia never offered Su-35 to Pakistan. Russians merely acknowledged that the Su-35 topic had come up during wide range discussions with Pakistani officials. Most certainly, it was the Pakistani officials who would have brought up the Su-35 topic and expressed the interest in witnessing the flight demonstration of the Su-35 during discussion with Russian officials.

Russia will never sell Su-35 to Pakistan. Period!

So like everything else in this modern world everything is credible and true if it suits Indian narrative, you guys quote DAWN day in and day out, the moment is shows you reality , you start attacking the credibility of a news outlet. Typical Indian sanghi bakth mentality.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

He is talking about the time before that when deino was on sinodef forum and claimed pakistan to be a beggar nation and has no money to buy any equipment and china will not sell to pakistan.

OMG, being a senior member does not prevent you from being a fool.
Once again for those who missed it or in case you finally get it:

I DID NOT say "pakistan is a beggar nation", all I did and still do is to claim, that Pakistan CANNOT GET EVERYTHING including J-16, J-20, the Liaoning, Type 055 and SSBN as you always and repeatedly claim!

Slowly I'm thinking it is not only your bad character of either stubbornness and the unwillingness to listen but indeed your hypocrisy and mendacity to deliberately spread lies against certain member.

As such I can only ask you to stop this mess ... I leave you and what you post and you stop with these constant insults and provocations. I think the correct term for this would be "Peaceful coexistence" and I'm sure several other members here would be happy if this mess would end.

 

[MastanKhan]

OMG, being a senior member does not prevent you from being a fool.
Once again for those who missed it or in case you finally get it:

I DID NOT say "pakistan is a beggar nation", all I did and still do is to claim, that Pakistan CANNOT GET EVERYTHING including J-16, J-20, the Liaoning, Type 055 and SSBN as you always and repeatedly claim!

Slowly I'm thinking it is not only your bad character of either stubbornness and the unwillingness to listen but indeed your hypocrisy and mendacity to deliberately spread lies against certain member.

As such I can only ask you to stop this mess ... I leave you and what you post and you stop with these constant insults and provocations. I think the correct term for this would be "Peaceful coexistence" and I'm sure several other members here would be happy if this mess would end.

Hi,

You may not have used the exact word---but your posts meant that---.

 

[KaiserX]

OMG, being a senior member does not prevent you from being a fool.
Once again for those who missed it or in case you finally get it:

I DID NOT say "pakistan is a beggar nation", all I did and still do is to claim, that Pakistan CANNOT GET EVERYTHING including J-16, J-20, the Liaoning, Type 055 and SSBN as you always and repeatedly claim!

Slowly I'm thinking it is not only your bad character of either stubbornness and the unwillingness to listen but indeed your hypocrisy and mendacity to deliberately spread lies against certain member.

As such I can only ask you to stop this mess ... I leave you and what you post and you stop with these constant insults and provocations. I think the correct term for this would be "Peaceful coexistence" and I'm sure several other members here would be happy if this mess would end.

I doubt any knowledgable member here claimed Pakistan is going to get the J-16, J-20, etc... and should not be taken seriously to begin with. The JF-17 block 3 is a given, Project AZM is ongoing, whether that results in the FC-31 or a stealth designed JF-17 remains to be seen.

Lastly the PAF itself shares some responsibility for the state of confusion regarding PAF procurements. Whether it is deliberate to keep the enemy in the dark (most likely reason).

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Lastly the PAF itself shares some responsibility for the state of confusion regarding PAF procurements. Whether it is deliberate to keep the enemy in the dark (most likely reason).

Like what ? which new platform PAF secretly bought and revealed all a sudden in the last 30-40 years ? just name one example ? really want to know what is this confusion all about....or keeping the enemy in the dark for some magic plane. Mind you enhancement/upgradation in existing fleet are normally not revealed by any airforce in the world, huge difference between this and buying all a sudden new platform.

Also officials from any airforce do keep checking top vendors in the world every now and then for a potential buy for future if the product fulfils strategic requirement and ofcourse the pockets but it doesn't mean a deal is being made most of the times especially in the case of Pakistan, where money matters. So any such deal will take a lot of time and negotiations hence can't remain hidden for that long.