Pakistan Air Force has an edge over Indian Air Force: Indian Parliamentary panel

[ice_man]

there is no possible way to compare the indian Air power to Pak Airforce. the Mirages are atleast 3 decades old the F7s are more on par with the Mig21s.

the F-16s are good but no match for the SU-30s.

So how on earth are "capabilities better"

 

[SQ8]

Doesn't change the fact that we are at record low strength. India uses Russian shipyards for construction of naval ships justifying that Indian shipyards are overbooked... by the same theory, HAL is overstreched too, there should not be any harm in sourcing another 100MKI's from Irkut, when HAL's production rate is not catching up to everchanging requirements for IAF. India desperately needs to get the numbers it needs, the only options at hand is LCA Mk1, and SU30MKI, unless our lazy diplomats can pull a jordan, with the M2K's

Record low strength at what point is the question? Neither Pakistan nor China at any of the realistic threat levels that that cannot be tackled by the present force levels. So while there is a dip.. there is no panic situation as is being painted.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Record low strength at what point is the question? Neither Pakistan nor China at any of the realistic threat levels that that cannot be tackled by the present force levels. So while there is a dip.. there is no panic situation as is being painted.

Budget time is approaching...........LOLLLL.

 

[The Great One]

Budget time is approaching...........LOLLLL.

Syriusly people. Its been done. The panel made a mistake (if you can call it that LOL). There are no motives to lobby for a big budget. Things don't work here that way.

 

[illusion8]

your airforce is not happy with SU-30, they want Rafael.

BS, IAF is very happy with the SU30's,

what IAF needs is a plane to replace the Mig 21 and the mig 27's. The initial RFI was for single engine planes, but got metamorphosed over the years into what it ended up with i.e. Eurofighter and rafale.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Syriusly people. Its been done. The panel made a mistake (if you can call it that LOL). There are no motives to lobby for a big budget. Things don't work here that way.

While there are shortfalls in numbers, it is nothing that is earth-shattering. And that "Sqdn. Numbers" usually being bandied about is neither divinely ordained nor cast in stone.

Having lived and worked in India, sometime in my life; I am well cognisant of the local saying which translates as "only the crying child gets milk".

 

[Paksanity]

there is no possible way to compare the indian Air power to Pak Airforce. the Mirages are atleast 3 decades old the F7s are more on par with the Mig21s.

the F-16s are good but no match for the SU-30s.

So how on earth are "capabilities better"

In a total way, IAF has the superiority. Let me put their concern in this way: the superiority of IAF in last decade and half is at the lowest at this moment. They are superior, yes. They will increase this superiority with programs they are running, yes. But concern is for the moment. Situation is created by dwindling aircraft numbers while replacements have not been on time. MMRCA has also taken way too long to finalise. Frustration of IAF chief was evident with his statement "this is not my air force, this is Indian air force!", if you can recall.

Those who consider F16 inferior, yes it is in some departments when compared to SU-30 but it has few tricks up it sleeves. In some areas it outperforms them. (hint: SU30 can take on any role with perfection right? Why go for MMRCA? It does not make logistical, economic, crew training and operational sense. Only makes political sense.)

P.S. "Finding is reserved for those who search"

 

[SQ8]

Budget time is approaching...........LOLLLL.

Well, here is a nice sign that the Indian state is approaching the level of national "maturity" enjoyed by the west; the military is now building bogeymans to get a bigger budget.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well, here is a nice sign that the Indian state is approaching the level of national "maturity" enjoyed by the west; the military is now building bogeymans to get a bigger budget.

Do you think that it is something new?
Its a phenomenon that we are familiar with, esp since the Economy started growing big-time in the 1990s. Before that; the jockeying was always there, just that there was'nt enough money to go around.
And do remember: that the Defence Estt. in India has much less clout than similar one(s) in the neighborhood.
Both the Political Leadership and the Bureaucracy can tell the Defence Estt. to "go fish"; if the demands are considered to be extravagant/unjustified. Or some Politically-based Programs need boosting; like the NREGA Program (to ensure Rural Employment) or the Food Security Program sometimes used up funds that were allocated for Security needs. India still aspires to be a Social Security State....... not a Security State. That will not change, unless there is a humongous Military Conflict; which is why the "powder is being kept dry" vis-a-vis China. Fortunately China is on the same page, wrt to its Economic Outlook; like India's POV. The "only joker in the pack" now is Pakistan. But with the growing disparity.......Economically, Diplomatically and Militarily; that factor is being steadily eroded........ even notwithstanding the "omni-present and omniscient" "Atmi Bums".

 

[Hurter]

Well, here is a nice sign that the Indian state is approaching the level of national "maturity" enjoyed by the west; the military is now building bogeymans to get a bigger budget.

What is the expected defence budget for next year?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Capt.Popeye @Oscar

The NON transparency or secretiveness in military matters
MOTIVATES the enemy to try and find out our real strength

The enemy releases its spies and agents ; they try to bribe officials ;
BOTH are caught at some point of time ; this way the TRAITORS are weeded out

So secrecy is essential ; there is NO rule that democracies should reveal all their state secrets

 

[illusion8]

In a total way, IAF has the superiority. Let me put their concern in this way: the superiority of IAF in last decade and half is at the lowest at this moment. They are superior, yes. They will increase this superiority with programs they are running, yes. But concern is for the moment. Situation is created by dwindling aircraft numbers while replacements have not been on time. MMRCA has also taken way too long to finalise. Frustration of IAF chief was evident with his statement "this is not my air force, this is Indian air force!", if you can recall.

Those who consider F16 inferior, yes it is in some departments when compared to SU-30 but it has few tricks up it sleeves. In some areas it outperforms them. (hint: SU30 can take on any role with perfection right? Why go for MMRCA? It does not make logistical, economic, crew training and operational sense. Only makes political sense.)

P.S. "Finding is reserved for those who search"

Why go for mmrca?

1) because there is a scheduled bare minimum sqn strength that's envisioned - which ideally is 45.
2) both 21's and 27's will be phased out beginning from 2015 to 2020 - so need replacements for those.
3) 272 su30's will not be enough.
4) IAF looking for Hi-Lo-Medium mix for various roles.
5) 5th gen programs and a potent naval version again in medium -lo configuration required for various aircraft carriers that are coming up.
6) Western platforms along with Russian platforms and indigenous one's are what is being envisaged.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Oscar

China and Pakistan are NOT bogeymans ; they are real enemies
Both claim and covet our territory

Pakistan is " one step ahead" ; even if we were to give Kashmir on a platter
Pakistan would still be our enemy

It is a civilisational conflict

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Capt.Popeye @Oscar

The NON transparency or secretiveness in military matters
MOTIVATES the enemy to try and find out our real strength

The enemy releases its spies and agents ; they try to bribe officials ;
BOTH are caught at some point of time ; this way the TRAITORS are weeded out

So secrecy is essential ; there is NO rule that democracies should reveal all their state secrets

Ah well..... just to put things in perspective for you: there is Secrecy, there is Transparency, there is Misinformation, there is Disinformation. All of these have utility and then get used as required.

 

[Storm Force]

If the Israelis can dominate most Arab air forces with four hundred fighters why cant India.

272 su30 with some being upgraded to super mki can tackle most air force's easily .

Throw in two hundred upgraded mig29. And mirage abd jags and that's 470.planes.

We still have the rather slow and painful lca tejas to grow the nos back to six hundred plus.

I don't see the alarm bells myself